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  • Protein MPS question

    Hello Dr.,
    if mps is activated by roughly 3 grams of leucine and that’s maxed out roughly every 3 hrs or
    so per Mps cycle and I weigh, say 200lbs. I then eat 1gram of protein per 1lb body weight
    per day and 40grams of animal is roughly the max that goes to mps during an mps
    cycle. That means I would eat about 80 extra grams of protein per day if I eat 3 meals
    per day. Is that just being
    stored as fat or does the extra protein help in some other way towards mps?
    thanks in advance

  • #2
    OGIF,

    Thanks for the post!

    MPS is indeed triggered by 3g of leucine in the context of a full complement of essential amino acids, however it won't do it on its own.

    The "extra" protein helps you get in the requisite essential and conditionally essential amino acids. While excess protein is hard to store as fat, as it is oxidized for fuel when eaten in excess, it will allow other energy substrates (e.g. carbs and fats) to be stores as fat more readily.

    -Jordan
    Barbell Medicine "With you from bench to bedside"
    ///Website /// Instagram /// Peri™ Rx /// Whey Rx /// Barbell Medicine Podcast/// Newsletter /// Seminars ///

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    • #3
      Ok thank you!
      so 40grams of animal protein 3x day will not have
      enough of the Essential and conditionally essentiL
      amino acids in order for me to better my chances
      of gainz with strength and hypertrophy ?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
        OGIF,

        Thanks for the post!

        MPS is indeed triggered by 3g of leucine in the context of a full complement of essential amino acids, however it won't do it on its own.

        The "extra" protein helps you get in the requisite essential and conditionally essential amino acids. While excess protein is hard to store as fat, as it is oxidized for fuel when eaten in excess, it will allow other energy substrates (e.g. carbs and fats) to be stores as fat more readily.

        -Jordan
        Good to know that. But, is there any guideline that says how much protein is too much regarding other macronutrients being stored as fat tissue more easily?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by sgarciac07 View Post

          Good to know that. But, is there any guideline that says how much protein is too much regarding other macronutrients being stored as fat tissue more easily?
          Whenever you are in a calorie surplus
          Barbell Medicine "With you from bench to bedside"
          ///Website /// Instagram /// Peri™ Rx /// Whey Rx /// Barbell Medicine Podcast/// Newsletter /// Seminars ///

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          • #6
            Originally posted by OldguyinFL View Post
            Ok thank you!
            so 40grams of animal protein 3x day will not have
            enough of the Essential and conditionally essentiL
            amino acids in order for me to better my chances
            of gainz with strength and hypertrophy ?
            Depends on the individual. We would recommend 1.6-3.1grams of protein per kg bodyweight per day
            Barbell Medicine "With you from bench to bedside"
            ///Website /// Instagram /// Peri™ Rx /// Whey Rx /// Barbell Medicine Podcast/// Newsletter /// Seminars ///

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            • #7
              Just to check my own understanding because I am trying to maximize MPS while trying to maintain the same waist size (~32.75").

              My understanding (Please correct): Protein will be prioritized for building/restoring lean body mass (muscle/connective tissue/bone), then will be converted to glucose. If you are ingesting more calories than you are burning, then first glycogen stores will be filled (as needed) then fat stores will be filled.

              A weird (and a little disconcerting) case (n=1) is me right now. I bumped up my calories from 28/2900 per day to 31/3200 (protein/carbs/fat - ~300g/40g/200g)per day for the past 3 days. I have gained 5lb!! (weighed first thing in the morning) in those 3 days. My waist size actually went down by 1/8th of an inch. My guess is that this weight gain is just that my body was refilling my glycogen stores. Does this sound like a reasonable explanation? I find it irrational that I would gain that much muscle in that short of a period of time.

              Since I am eating a keto diet, it would be gluconeogenesis that would be occurring from either (or both) the excess protein or fat (the glycerol backbone) that would store in glycogen. My best guess would be it is the protein going through gluconeogenesis since I am ingesting so much and I am probably still primarily using fat since I am still in ketosis. No way to fully know this, though.

              Am I completely off the rails? As a software engineer, I only have a cursory understanding of this stuff.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by kenwells View Post
                Just to check my own understanding because I am trying to maximize MPS while trying to maintain the same waist size (~32.75").

                My understanding (Please correct): Protein will be prioritized for building/restoring lean body mass (muscle/connective tissue/bone), then will be converted to glucose. If you are ingesting more calories than you are burning, then first glycogen stores will be filled (as needed) then fat stores will be filled..
                A simplification, yes.

                Originally posted by kenwells View Post
                A weird (and a little disconcerting) case (n=1) is me right now. I bumped up my calories from 28/2900 per day to 31/3200 (protein/carbs/fat - ~300g/40g/200g).
                This is very high for protein. I do not know why you gained 5lbs because I don't know what your diet was before.

                Your protein level is far too high for a keto diet.
                Barbell Medicine "With you from bench to bedside"
                ///Website /// Instagram /// Peri™ Rx /// Whey Rx /// Barbell Medicine Podcast/// Newsletter /// Seminars ///

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                • #9
                  My diet is mostly animal products (meat, fish, eggs, and dairy). Too many vegetables upset my digestive tract (not all, olives, avocado, and a handful of others seem fine so I incorporate them). This way of eating ends up being very high protein as fatty cuts tend to be too expensive to eat every meal, and I can't get myself to eat more than 8 eggs in a day. I eat a fair amount of sardines and they have a high protein to fat ratio, but I want the omega3. I'm 195lb, so I'm still under 4g/lb and somehow am still in ketosis (.8-1, but this seems high enough to keep my schizophrenia under control with the current meds, might work with my psychiatrist to see if one more lowering works). I'm not too concerned with 100% adherence to a diet as long as I'm getting the results I want and it appears to be working

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                  • #10
                    Keto strips are unreliable for measuring "ketosis", not that it really matters in this cause. I agree with the adherence and results-driven management, but if you're asking me about your protein intake and what you should do- I wouldn't have you eat that much protein. I do not think the diet you're currently on has any impact on your medical condition(s), though as mentioned before, I like hearing that you're doing well!
                    Barbell Medicine "With you from bench to bedside"
                    ///Website /// Instagram /// Peri™ Rx /// Whey Rx /// Barbell Medicine Podcast/// Newsletter /// Seminars ///

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                    • #11
                      Agreed. I am trying to find ways to reduce protein and get more fat, but without resorting to just adding butter/cream/oil to everything. It's a work in progress. The difficult thing is that my wife also prefers lean meat (poultry), which means that I end up eating a fair amount of cheese with meals to get the fat. It would be a lot easier if I didn't have the symptoms of my disease while eating carbohydrates.

                      Thanks as always!
                      ​​

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