Minimum protein intake for Maximum MPS

[Brian Harlin]

What's up Jordan (and the likeable Jordan)? I am currently using Layne Norton's Avatar Nutrition and My Fitness Pal to keep me accountable and slowly lose bf to help with my hip pain from arthritis. It's been going well and I have lost about 30 lbs slowly while running an RPE based 12 week program that Jordan programmed for me a few years ago.

Avatar nutrition is very flexible and you can specify if you want to eat more protein than what they default to for your specific information and goals. Their default seems pretty low compared to what Jordan recommends. I know that Jordan is pretty liberal with his protein RX up to about 250g. Avatar has member accessible videos where they explain how they get their protein defaults and it mostly boils down to about 1g per lb of LBM plus a little. So for me at ~220lbs they default to around ~180g protein. It seems a bit low for me but I wanted to get your take on what a minimum protein intake that could still maintain a maximum MPS rate? I know you have said ~30g per meal (of quality protein) is going to get you pretty much there (if the BCAA content is on point) so that's around 150g if eating 5 meals a day.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

What's up Jordan (and the likeable Jordan)? I am currently using Layne Norton's Avatar Nutrition and My Fitness Pal to keep me accountable and slowly lose bf to help with my hip pain from arthritis. It's been going well and I have lost about 30 lbs slowly while running an RPE based 12 week program that Jordan programmed for me a few years ago.

Avatar nutrition is very flexible and you can specify if you want to eat more protein than what they default to for your specific information and goals. Their default seems pretty low compared to what Jordan recommends. I know that Jordan is pretty liberal with his protein RX up to about 250g. Avatar has member accessible videos where they explain how they get their protein defaults and it mostly boils down to about 1g per lb of LBM plus a little. So for me at ~220lbs they default to around ~180g protein. It seems a bit low for me but I wanted to get your take on what a minimum protein intake that could still maintain a maximum MPS rate? I know you have said ~30g per meal (of quality protein) is going to get you pretty much there (if the BCAA content is on point) so that's around 150g if eating 5 meals a day.

Minimum protein intake would be ~150g a day, then add some for trace proteins that occur in fats and carbohydrates. If your caloric intake is high enough, I think you're going to need ~200-220 or more of total protein per day.

[Mr_Rogers]

Are trace proteins why you had my protein 220+? I'm guessing yes, but only to make sure I'm getting enough lean proteins (from lean cuts of meats and whey).

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Are trace proteins why you had my protein 220+? I'm guessing yes, but only to make sure I'm getting enough lean proteins (from lean cuts of meats and whey).

That and I don't think there are many benefits from having protein "as low as possible while still retaining optimal MPS"

[Brian Harlin]

That and I don't think there are many benefits from having protein "as low as possible while still retaining optimal MPS"

To be clear my question was not asked because I want to be on the minimum protien intake, I was just curious where you thought that line was. I do think that there can be compliance benefits for some people if they can lower their protien intake and increase their fat / carb intake. For example, if I was consuming 250g of carbs at my current kcal intake, I would be completely limited to chicken breasts and egg whites. This is doable, but after a while it gets old. If I could lower my protien to say 210g and and raise my fat and carbs to a point where I can eat some lean beef and salmon, it's easier to maintain that for longer periods. So if I can do that and still maintain MPS levels and a caloric intake to maintain my dietary goals, would you argue against that?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

To be clear my question was not asked because I want to be on the minimum protien intake, I was just curious where you thought that line was. I do think that there can be compliance benefits for some people if they can lower their protien intake and increase their fat / carb intake. For example, if I was consuming 250g of carbs at my current kcal intake, I would be completely limited to chicken breasts and egg whites. This is doable, but after a while it gets old. If I could lower my protien to say 210g and and raise my fat and carbs to a point where I can eat some lean beef and salmon, it's easier to maintain that for longer periods. So if I can do that and still maintain MPS levels and a caloric intake to maintain my dietary goals, would you argue against that?

Yea, I agree with you re: possible compliance benefit. On the other hand, there are certainly differences metabolically with eating higher protein vs lower. 210 vs 250 is likely insignificant, but 150 vs 250 would be different. I don't think MPS is the only concern, in short.

[DoubleJ]

Hi Guys,

Apologies if this is hi-jacking the thread, but i have a similar question to Brian

I've made good progress this year reducing my BF from ~36% Jan 1 to ~30% today (Total Wt 101kg Jan 1 to 89Kg today),
but i've really only been paying close attention to total calories consumed, and not so much how that splits into macros

If i put the recommendation for Fat Loss from "To Be A Beast" into MyFitnessPal, i get the following daily goals:
P 254g/F 50g/ C 198g (NB: some rounding introduced by MFP)

I've never thought about eating that much protein in a day, and i find it a little daunting - as Brian says, i'd need to be
eating a 200g serving of chicken breast 4 times a day to hit that, and substituting e.g. beef once or twice blows my fat
macro through the roof

So my questions:
1. How flexible are the Fat and Carb macros? is it OK week-on-week to flex them a bit in relation to one another, as long
as my total calories and protein intake stay solid?
2. Any advice on how those macros might look as a real-world meal plan?

Thanks!

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

So my questions:
1. How flexible are the Fat and Carb macros? is it OK week-on-week to flex them a bit in relation to one another, as long
as my total calories and protein intake stay solid?
2. Any advice on how those macros might look as a real-world meal plan?

Thanks!

1) Not flexible. No.
2) Tons, but I'm not going to write you a meal plan just off the cuff without knowing anything about you and having a working relationship.

[DoubleJ]

I'm not going to write you a meal plan just off the cuff without knowing anything about you and having a working relationship

LOL! of course not, Jordan. i wasn't actually asking for that, but do tell me more about how we could progress a working relationship ...

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Shoot us an email @ [email protected]