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  • #46
    Originally posted by handsomewizard View Post
    Just finished week 1.

    Knees usually feel a little achy but get better during the workout. Then they're a again a bit achy for the next 24 hours or so. When should I do the extra isometric days? (Day 2 and 4)

    I was able to do the biofeedback test before the sessions at depth and tempo. I was getting pain near the bottom of the position but it did not worsen my symptoms pain stayed steady. I should only revert to isometrics on the main lifting days if/when the feedback test increases pain after the 2 sets. Correct?

    Also have you personally tried this template? RPE 10 sets of 15 on squats and deadlifts at 303 tempo are god awful. Been cursing your names all week.
    Hey! If you are noticing an intolerable increase in symptoms that are staying elevated for 24 hours then I'd recommend adjusting external loading (weight being lifted).

    In these instances - I'd recommend the extra isometric day to help with analgesia.

    Biofeedback test - should be completed with tolerable symptoms. If you complete one set and get severe increase in symptoms then rest and repeat - if the same or worse scenario occurs then modify loading for the day to isometrics. Re-assess with biofeedback test on next scheduled session.

    Yes - HSR sucks...I've been amazed by the lack of hate mail I've received since launch.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Michael Ray View Post

      Hey! If you are noticing an intolerable increase in symptoms that are staying elevated for 24 hours then I'd recommend adjusting external loading (weight being lifted).

      In these instances - I'd recommend the extra isometric day to help with analgesia.

      Biofeedback test - should be completed with tolerable symptoms. If you complete one set and get severe increase in symptoms then rest and repeat - if the same or worse scenario occurs then modify loading for the day to isometrics. Re-assess with biofeedback test on next scheduled session.

      Yes - HSR sucks...I've been amazed by the lack of hate mail I've received since launch.
      Thanks for the reply.

      Apologies for spamming up this topic but just so I understand correctly:

      My symptoms are really only during deeper knee/hip flexion so I only really ever get knee pain near the bottom position of the squat or the biofeedback test. I'm able to do the biofeedback test at tempo each day but it does hurt near the bottom position however doing reps doesn't seem to make the pain increase it stays consistent but there is pain. I've been resting then performing it again and the pain is still a constant pain level. In that case I'm good to go and don't need to swap the day out for isometrics?

      Finally, If I do substitute the workout for isometrics that day do I repeat that day in the cycle? Ie If I am on week 5 day 1 and I need to use isometrics would I count my next full regular workout as the first workout that week?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by handsomewizard View Post

        My symptoms are really only during deeper knee/hip flexion so I only really ever get knee pain near the bottom position of the squat or the biofeedback test. I'm able to do the biofeedback test at tempo each day but it does hurt near the bottom position however doing reps doesn't seem to make the pain increase it stays consistent but there is pain. I've been resting then performing it again and the pain is still a constant pain level. In that case I'm good to go and don't need to swap the day out for isometrics?

        Finally, If I do substitute the workout for isometrics that day do I repeat that day in the cycle? Ie If I am on week 5 day 1 and I need to use isometrics would I count my next full regular workout as the first workout that week?
        Biofeedback test - yes, provided symptoms are tolerable - then this is ok. If they are severely increasing (decreased function, range of motion, etc) afterwards and you are consistently feeling worse after hitting these ranges during training, then I'd recommend a box squat just above this range of motion and then slowly decrease the depth cue over the following weeks.

        Remember - symptoms do not equate to you are damaging yourself or making matters worse necessarily - but rather you may be exceeding your individualistic tolerance level for the day.

        No - don't repeat the day. Just continue on as normal.

        Comment


        • #49
          What’s the recommendation for when you’re not strong enough to do the bio test? I’m about 6 months into my training career and I’m 290ish lbs so I’m unable to do one legged squat. My gym does have one of those angle steps but I was unable to get to proper depth and it wasn’t the pain.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Therealredding View Post
            What’s the recommendation for when you’re not strong enough to do the bio test? I’m about 6 months into my training career and I’m 290ish lbs so I’m unable to do one legged squat. My gym does have one of those angle steps but I was unable to get to proper depth and it wasn’t the pain.
            You can use the opposite leg as a "kickstand" of sorts to help with the movement i.e. rest the heel on the ground beside you but don't put full weight on the opposite (non-testing) extremity.

            Comment


            • #51
              Hi,

              I just purchased the knee rehab template, thank you so much for putting this together. I have a question to help me understand the process so I can better help my clients and myself later on. In Phase 2 the number of exercise variants is fairly low, with two bilateral and one unilateral movements (aside from the isometrics), which are repeated each day. In contrast, the diversity increases with much more choice in Phase 3. What are the benefits of less movement diversity over more for the main portion of the program? Is it to more accurately track the rehabilitative progress by removing variables?

              Thanks again!

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Jordan Rouse View Post
                Hi,

                I just purchased the knee rehab template, thank you so much for putting this together. I have a question to help me understand the process so I can better help my clients and myself later on. In Phase 2 the number of exercise variants is fairly low, with two bilateral and one unilateral movements (aside from the isometrics), which are repeated each day. In contrast, the diversity increases with much more choice in Phase 3. What are the benefits of less movement diversity over more for the main portion of the program? Is it to more accurately track the rehabilitative progress by removing variables?

                Thanks again!
                Hey Jordan Rouse, thanks for purchasing the template and for your question. You nailed it with the last sentence of your comment. Phase 2 is meant to maintain tight regulation on loading of the symptomatic area by controlling variability, volume, and intensity in an effort to reach symptomatic improvement while allowing tolerable loading to the area. By phase 3 we expect symptoms to have improved and are more comfortable with variability in training as this would typically resemble "standard" training.

                Comment


                • Jordan Rouse
                  Jordan Rouse commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Perfect, thank you for the quick response!

              • #53
                A few questions about using the template for Phase one.

                1) For the single leg exercises, there's only one section but so how does that work for tracking work on both legs?
                2) The frequency is 2 x day but there's only one section per day. Should we only track one session a day?

                Am I missing something?

                Lastly I just wanted to make sure.....are we supposed to do the Deadlift with a 3-0-3 tempo as well?
                Last edited by Therealredding; 01-23-2019, 09:12 PM.

                Comment


                • #54
                  Hi,

                  A couple of questions on phase 3 which I will be starting in a couple fo weeks. Given you can choose the exercises and the low bar squat is an option on Day 1 and 3 would you recommend doing your main squat on those two days?

                  Also, tempos up to now have ensured that the weight on the bar for me has been moving up very slowly. In phase 3 tempos are gone, reps come down each week as intensity goes up. I imagine this could mean weight on the bar increasing alot more quickly. Is that the plan here? I am conscious that my knees flare up as the weight gets very heavy.

                  Comment


                  • #55
                    22y/o, 245lbs, 6’, Male

                    Hello!

                    I was diagnosed with Osgood Schlatter as a kid and have pain in my left patellar tendon ever since. I know it shouldn’t affect me now, but it is the same exact spot. I’m assuming it is some sort of tendinopathy but can’t afford to go to a doctor to have it diagnosed, but the template description fit the bill for me. This pain is something that has affected me for years, to the point where if I ever need to kneel on the ground, I dread doing it. I feel like a part of simply living has been taken away from because of this pain. I know that is something psychological that I must work through, and I also know that there is no “cure-all”, but will this rehab get me to a point where I can live a “normal” life where I don’t have to think about hurting my knee? Will I be able to train (taking appropriate load and intensity into consideration) without having to worry about if my knee is going to hurt the next day? I apologize if these are heavy weighted questions.

                    Some side questions about how this affects training
                    Is it okay to use leg drive in the bench press?
                    Is it ok to attempt to lose weight and use this template?
                    What kind of conditioning is allowed? I’m assuming LISS is fine, but HIIT on the rower should be avoided? Do you have any suggestions for HIIT if its allowed?

                    Side note. I was thinking about trying out sumo so this seems like the perfect time to try and practice technique!!!

                    Thank you for your time!

                    Travis
                    Just a computer programmer trying to prove Jordan wrong
                    Insta: @napier.lifts

                    Comment


                    • #56
                      Originally posted by Therealredding View Post
                      A few questions about using the template for Phase one.

                      1) For the single leg exercises, there's only one section but so how does that work for tracking work on both legs?
                      2) The frequency is 2 x day but there's only one section per day. Should we only track one session a day?

                      Am I missing something?

                      Lastly I just wanted to make sure.....are we supposed to do the Deadlift with a 3-0-3 tempo as well?
                      1. Not sure I follow. Just record the total weight used (if any) for the exercise. A single rep = Left + Right. You should be performing the same total work on each leg.
                      2. The frequency is 1 - 2 x / day. If you are doing only bodyweight exercises and not adding an external load (EX: via leg extension or goblet squat hold) then you can perform them 2 x / day. However, if you are using an external load then I'd say no more than once (we should likely add that caveat into the template update - thanks for bringing this up).

                      Comment


                      • Therealredding
                        Therealredding commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Perfect thank you. I’ve been testing out the iso exersiced and as of right now I can maybe do 20sec for each leg for a split squat and 10sec of the Spanish squat so no external loading for me.

                    • #57
                      Originally posted by graystep View Post
                      Hi,

                      A couple of questions on phase 3 which I will be starting in a couple fo weeks. Given you can choose the exercises and the low bar squat is an option on Day 1 and 3 would you recommend doing your main squat on those two days?

                      Also, tempos up to now have ensured that the weight on the bar for me has been moving up very slowly. In phase 3 tempos are gone, reps come down each week as intensity goes up. I imagine this could mean weight on the bar increasing alot more quickly. Is that the plan here? I am conscious that my knees flare up as the weight gets very heavy.
                      I'd keep variety in for right now and not get too concerned with multiple squat days. Example: One day low bar and another leg press. Then once the template is over and you want to do either a different template/programming, you can begin to layer in additional days of squatting with different focal points. This isn't say you can't low bar squat both days - you can, I'm just not certain it should be a priority right now and this would likely depend on your plans post-template. Happy to discuss more.

                      To help regulate external loading in phase three, RPE is dropped and is slowly ramped back up week to week. I'd recommend not setting the expectation for yourself that when load gets heavy = symptoms. If you are concerned about this, one alteration you can make is the weeks volume decreases, leave the RPE the same as the prior week.

                      Comment


                      • #58
                        Originally posted by tnapes96 View Post
                        22y/o, 245lbs, 6’, Male

                        Hello!

                        I was diagnosed with Osgood Schlatter as a kid and have pain in my left patellar tendon ever since. I know it shouldn’t affect me now, but it is the same exact spot. I’m assuming it is some sort of tendinopathy but can’t afford to go to a doctor to have it diagnosed, but the template description fit the bill for me. This pain is something that has affected me for years, to the point where if I ever need to kneel on the ground, I dread doing it. I feel like a part of simply living has been taken away from because of this pain. I know that is something psychological that I must work through, and I also know that there is no “cure-all”, but will this rehab get me to a point where I can live a “normal” life where I don’t have to think about hurting my knee? Will I be able to train (taking appropriate load and intensity into consideration) without having to worry about if my knee is going to hurt the next day? I apologize if these are heavy weighted questions.

                        Some side questions about how this affects training
                        Is it okay to use leg drive in the bench press?
                        Is it ok to attempt to lose weight and use this template?
                        What kind of conditioning is allowed? I’m assuming LISS is fine, but HIIT on the rower should be avoided? Do you have any suggestions for HIIT if its allowed?

                        Side note. I was thinking about trying out sumo so this seems like the perfect time to try and practice technique!!!

                        Thank you for your time!

                        Travis
                        Hey Travis,

                        As you mentioned OS is self-resolving during initial onset (provided activity is modified accordingly). At this point, you definitely could be dealing with a patellar tendinopathy but it's difficult to state without a consult. I think the knee template could be beneficial for you but I strongly suggest listening to our podcasts on pain and reading through our blogs. Although the exercise will help regulate loading in a controlled manner and progress you back to "normative" resistance training, if you don't address your beliefs about pain and re-conceptualize the meaning of pain, then this may not get you to where you want to be.

                        Regarding leg drive - this depends on if it makes you very symptomatic during or afterwards. If not, then I'm not too concerned about it. If it does then I recommend switching to non-comp bench or even feet up or Larsen if necessary.

                        Losing weight and using the template should be fine. I can't think of any issues but Vanessa (our staff RD) would be a better person to email about this ([email protected]).

                        LISS should be ok (provided volume is kept in check). I don't recommend HIIT right now because it typically involves more dynamic loading of the area.
                        Keep us posted.

                        Comment


                        • #59
                          Originally posted by Michael Ray View Post

                          1. Not sure I follow. Just record the total weight used (if any) for the exercise. A single rep = Left + Right. You should be performing the same total work on each leg.
                          2. The frequency is 1 - 2 x / day. If you are doing only bodyweight exercises and not adding an external load (EX: via leg extension or goblet squat hold) then you can perform them 2 x / day. However, if you are using an external load then I'd say no more than once (we should likely add that caveat into the template update - thanks for bringing this up).
                          Sorry...and the deadlift? Is it performed at tempo as well? The only reason I ask is because I’ve always been under the assumption that deadlifts were for the postural chain so I wouldn’t have thought it would prescribed for knee tendon rehab.

                          Comment


                          • #60
                            Originally posted by Therealredding View Post

                            Sorry...and the deadlift? Is it performed at tempo as well? The only reason I ask is because I’ve always been under the assumption that deadlifts were for the postural chain so I wouldn’t have thought it would prescribed for knee tendon rehab.
                            Yes, deadlifts are at tempo as well. We are regulating total loading to the lower body and increasing time under tension.

                            Comment

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