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  • #61
    Hi,

    I've been dealing with PFPS for a few months. Due to pain during and after lifting I stopped doing squat like exercises, which I thought were causing the pain. The pain decreased and I don't have many symptoms right now, maybe a 1/10 ache (more uncomfortableness than pain) in daily life but deep knee bending hurts, as well as stuff like a casual game of soccer on an afternoon. I started the template to increase strength in my leg as I understood it'll improve symptoms?

    The thing is, I'm super skinny, about 175 lbs at 6'4" (I do rock climbing, please don't bully me ). I've been stuck at novice level lifts for a while, I was at 155/240/285 before I stopped squatting. I figured my plateau was partly due to lack of consistency, but mostly due to lack of weight gain. Would gaining weight increase rate of strength improvement and therefore my symptoms?
    Last edited by mc1234; 01-29-2019, 10:01 AM.

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    • #62
      Up to a top set up 195x12 at tempo on high bar without pain during the movment so that is nice. overall daily symptoms are reduced as well. Aching knees from sitting is much reduced as well as things like going up stairs getting out of a chair etc.

      still 7-8 weeks to go as well. Things are looking good.

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      • #63
        Hello,

        How do I modify five days of working out into three days of working out in phase two for the 16 week knee rehab template? Also I am thinking of going into a weight loss phase in the second half of the template, thinking of utilizing the rower later on to expend more energy to lose weight, well is that okay? Or would that impede my knee rehab process (if that were the case I would be willing to drop it)?

        Anyways sorry it took me time for me buy the template, had to sort out other finances before getting to it.

        Thanks,

        Bolder

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Bolder View Post
          Hello,

          How do I modify five days of working out into three days of working out in phase two for the 16 week knee rehab template? Also I am thinking of going into a weight loss phase in the second half of the template, thinking of utilizing the rower later on to expend more energy to lose weight, well is that okay? Or would that impede my knee rehab process (if that were the case I would be willing to drop it)?

          Anyways sorry it took me time for me buy the template, had to sort out other finances before getting to it.

          Thanks,

          Bolder
          Not one of docs but phase two days 1,3,5 are the main days, 2 and 4 are isometric days only to be done if you're have experienced an increase in symptoms after one of the other days.

          Re. rowing this was mentioned elsewhere that the loading on the knee might be too dynamic for the early stages of this program but I'll leave one of the experts to confirm.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Bolder View Post
            Hello,

            How do I modify five days of working out into three days of working out in phase two for the 16 week knee rehab template? Also I am thinking of going into a weight loss phase in the second half of the template, thinking of utilizing the rower later on to expend more energy to lose weight, well is that okay? Or would that impede my knee rehab process (if that were the case I would be willing to drop it)?

            Anyways sorry it took me time for me buy the template, had to sort out other finances before getting to it.

            Thanks,

            Bolder
            Hey Bolder ,

            As Tomphillips stated, the main days for phase 2 are 1,3, & 5. The isometric days are there if you notice an increase in symptoms the following day or if you need to modify away from days 1, 3, & 5 due to failing the biofeedback test.

            If you are doing LISS on the rower then you may be ok but monitor symptoms accordingly. I typically don't recommend HIIT while working through the template. My primary concern with this is implementing additional loading to the area and HIIT is usually dynamic loading.

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            • #66
              Hi,
              one question about the knee rehab template.Am i supposed to build up to a set of RPE 10 on every lift during the phase 2?

              Comment


              • #67
                Some observations about my experience with the template so far...

                I originally commenced the template around about November, because I had pain situated below the kneecap and I had also some sort of pain when approaching bodyweight compound lifts on the inside of my knee. Medial meniscus or MCL area, it's kind of general and achy. Could as easily be pes anserine bursitis as it could be tendonitis or whatever I know.

                Well, the good news is, I loved the program in many ways. Not the first few weeks obviously, they sucked badly as you know damn well- doing sets of 15 and even 12 sometimes feels a bit like trying to recreate the sensation of being waterboarded. Also, and here's where I may have gone wrong, the amount of time I had to spend doing 6 X 15 or 12 of tempos meant I was taking a good 90-100 minutes even when I had a clear run of the equipment. So, mea culpa, I dropped the unilateral exercises from the off. My wife wasn't mad on the longer gym sessions. However, my tendon pain below the knee abated nicely. In addition, I put weight on (tempos may hurt but they seem to really blow me up), increased my tonnage week on week, particularly around the ten rep mark. Technique also began to feel nicer than it has in ages, I learned not to obsess too much about form and the higher reps greased the groove really well.

                However

                Here's where I worry about dropping the unilateral exercises- around about the time I got to go from sets of twelve to sets of ten, the sensations in the side of my knee increased. "No problem, back to 12's it is" so I did. Unfortunately although the pain abated in line with dropping intensity my knee began to clunk about quite a bit outside of the gym. Not just crepitus, but a "catching" sensation that consistently stems from a bent knee that can only be resolved by straightening the knee, resulting in a painless "crack". This has not gone away, and it of course appears to get worse with loading.

                And... here I seem to remain, moving from 6X12 to 6X10 and back to 6X12 again as the "tendon/MCL/bursitis/whatever" pain in the side of my knee returns (the pain below the knee has NOT returned, I'm happy to say), I have been more or less ignoring what I would have labelled in the past prior to frequenting the BBM forums as a "kneecap tracking issue"- threw caution to the wind and moved to 6X8 a few weeks back but it didn't go well (fucked up my RPE and tweaked my shoulder in a cold gym) and here I am back at 6X10 and considering 6X12 again. Pah.

                So what gives? Why the doldrums? Is it the YNDTP thing with the unilateral exercises? Is it my choice of compound exercises (I love the squat and deadlift and am very happy with the weight and strength I seem to have gained since starting the template, I had actually stalled my LP prior to commencing)? And my final concern is that it's none of that, and I may have traumatised the side of my knee last year doing some ill advised pistol squats and it's a now become A Thing. A relatively painless injury (and my pain threshold is not impressive) that I didn't expect to be lurking about all this time later to be honest.

                I'm feeling quite rinsed out by it now after all the initial success, and these last several weeks I've felt like my lifts have dropped a little, my knee has got worse, the clunking is freaking me out a bit when I'm walking around, sometimes I stop and straighten my leg walking around town and I look to all and sundry like I'm having to pause to rip a fart off, the gym is fucking freezing, is that a fat belly I see growing there...? Argh

                I definitely feel like I'm getting a bit of a negative internal monologue developing here Docs, can you help a stalling knee template brother out?

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by zeljko View Post
                  Hi,
                  one question about the knee rehab template.Am i supposed to build up to a set of RPE 10 on every lift during the phase 2?
                  Yes, for the prescribed lifts on training days 1,3, and 5.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Jungle Dave View Post
                    Some observations about my experience with the template so far...

                    I originally commenced the template around about November, because I had pain situated below the kneecap and I had also some sort of pain when approaching bodyweight compound lifts on the inside of my knee. Medial meniscus or MCL area, it's kind of general and achy. Could as easily be pes anserine bursitis as it could be tendonitis or whatever I know.

                    Well, the good news is, I loved the program in many ways. Not the first few weeks obviously, they sucked badly as you know damn well- doing sets of 15 and even 12 sometimes feels a bit like trying to recreate the sensation of being waterboarded. Also, and here's where I may have gone wrong, the amount of time I had to spend doing 6 X 15 or 12 of tempos meant I was taking a good 90-100 minutes even when I had a clear run of the equipment. So, mea culpa, I dropped the unilateral exercises from the off. My wife wasn't mad on the longer gym sessions. However, my tendon pain below the knee abated nicely. In addition, I put weight on (tempos may hurt but they seem to really blow me up), increased my tonnage week on week, particularly around the ten rep mark. Technique also began to feel nicer than it has in ages, I learned not to obsess too much about form and the higher reps greased the groove really well.

                    However

                    Here's where I worry about dropping the unilateral exercises- around about the time I got to go from sets of twelve to sets of ten, the sensations in the side of my knee increased. "No problem, back to 12's it is" so I did. Unfortunately although the pain abated in line with dropping intensity my knee began to clunk about quite a bit outside of the gym. Not just crepitus, but a "catching" sensation that consistently stems from a bent knee that can only be resolved by straightening the knee, resulting in a painless "crack". This has not gone away, and it of course appears to get worse with loading.

                    And... here I seem to remain, moving from 6X12 to 6X10 and back to 6X12 again as the "tendon/MCL/bursitis/whatever" pain in the side of my knee returns (the pain below the knee has NOT returned, I'm happy to say), I have been more or less ignoring what I would have labelled in the past prior to frequenting the BBM forums as a "kneecap tracking issue"- threw caution to the wind and moved to 6X8 a few weeks back but it didn't go well (fucked up my RPE and tweaked my shoulder in a cold gym) and here I am back at 6X10 and considering 6X12 again. Pah.

                    So what gives? Why the doldrums? Is it the YNDTP thing with the unilateral exercises? Is it my choice of compound exercises (I love the squat and deadlift and am very happy with the weight and strength I seem to have gained since starting the template, I had actually stalled my LP prior to commencing)? And my final concern is that it's none of that, and I may have traumatised the side of my knee last year doing some ill advised pistol squats and it's a now become A Thing. A relatively painless injury (and my pain threshold is not impressive) that I didn't expect to be lurking about all this time later to be honest.

                    I'm feeling quite rinsed out by it now after all the initial success, and these last several weeks I've felt like my lifts have dropped a little, my knee has got worse, the clunking is freaking me out a bit when I'm walking around, sometimes I stop and straighten my leg walking around town and I look to all and sundry like I'm having to pause to rip a fart off, the gym is fucking freezing, is that a fat belly I see growing there...? Argh

                    I definitely feel like I'm getting a bit of a negative internal monologue developing here Docs, can you help a stalling knee template brother out?
                    Hey Jungle Dave ,

                    Sorry to hear about the recent turn of events. Can you do me a favor and start a thread on the Pain and Rehab subforum so we can address your concerns directly?

                    List out initial onset, any associated mechanisms of injury/trauma, circumstances surrounding onset, current symptoms and related activities. See if we can help you out.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Cheers Michael. I'll try and be more clinical about it over there...!

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                      • #71
                        Jungle Dave I've had a similar issue moving into the 10 rep phase

                        Second week on 10s last session was up to a top set of 240x10 at tempo. While Doing the lifts i seem to be ok but then I've had increased symptoms especially in the right knee on the medial side which has lasted about a week (session was last monday) Did isometrics etc and it hasn't helped unfortunately

                        Michael Ray Any thoughts here? Too much load too quick? Reduce intensity? I've been following hte build to an RPE10 as per program. Perhaps back off for a week and do higher reps at less intensity? All the old symptoms in the right knee have basically returned this week. (Pain while seated at rest, pain during flexion - going up stairs etc) Did isometrics in lieu of squatting etc for two days last week and on an off day yet no improvement. Even the isometrics kinda hurt while i was doing them or aggravated it.


                        Considering adding TB500 and BPC157 while i bang out the next 3-4 weeks and hopefully be done with this god awful tempo work haha

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by handsomewizard View Post
                          Jungle Dave I've had a similar issue moving into the 10 rep phase

                          Second week on 10s last session was up to a top set of 240x10 at tempo. While Doing the lifts i seem to be ok but then I've had increased symptoms especially in the right knee on the medial side which has lasted about a week (session was last monday) Did isometrics etc and it hasn't helped unfortunately

                          Michael Ray Any thoughts here? Too much load too quick? Reduce intensity? I've been following hte build to an RPE10 as per program. Perhaps back off for a week and do higher reps at less intensity? All the old symptoms in the right knee have basically returned this week. (Pain while seated at rest, pain during flexion - going up stairs etc) Did isometrics in lieu of squatting etc for two days last week and on an off day yet no improvement. Even the isometrics kinda hurt while i was doing them or aggravated it.


                          Considering adding TB500 and BPC157 while i bang out the next 3-4 weeks and hopefully be done with this god awful tempo work haha
                          Hey handsomewizard , sounds like you acutely overreached and need to back off loading a bit and then titrate back up. This happens, especially when dealing with tendinopathies. I would still let RPE guide the path while accounting for symptoms. The RPE, as in any case, is taking into account your current subjective feeling lifting the load (inclusive of symptoms). If symptoms are severely increasing during or after training then I'd decrease external intensity. If you find yourself regularly overshooting then yes, dropping RPE below 10 will likely help, provided you don't overshoot RPE.

                          In these scenarios, the biofeedback test should be guiding the path. If it continues to be provocative above baseline (i.e severely increasing) then continue isometrics until you can meet the guidelines of the biofeedback test. If isometrics are provocative then you can sub in a different isometric or alter range of motion to tolerance while symptoms subside. Again, these things happen. Stay focused and don't panic.

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                          • #73
                            Hello, I missed out on week 3, day 2 of the workout. i replaced it with isometrics, my knees were really hurting on that day, because i was an idiot that decided to sprint to catch the train. however, my knees are feeling a little better, should i repeat the third week? due to missing out the second workout of the week. only completed days 1 and 3.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Bolder View Post
                              Hello, I missed out on week 3, day 2 of the workout. i replaced it with isometrics, my knees were really hurting on that day, because i was an idiot that decided to sprint to catch the train. however, my knees are feeling a little better, should i repeat the third week? due to missing out the second workout of the week. only completed days 1 and 3.
                              No, I would continue on with normal scheduling. Glad to hear things are feeling better already after the acute flare-up.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Hi,

                                Couple of questions about the template....

                                Is there another option for the feedback test, the single leg squat to 90 is quite painful (I am pretty weak so it's a significant load for the knee) and seems to flares up symptoms more than the main session does. I thought about holding onto something to reduce the load but feel it would be difficult to be consistent with how much help I am giving myself.

                                With load equated tempo squats seem to be more painful than normal speed, is this unusual? should I still be doing them slowly?

                                I originally assumed i was dealing with a tendinopathy (maybe VMO), but not so sure now as pain is often within the knee cap or just to the inside of it. Does the actual issue matter that much? Presumably I just do the template the same if it's just non specific PTFJ pain?

                                Thanks
                                Tom

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