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  • Hey Michael Ray,

    I've a few questions about the Knee Rehab template before I purchase it.
    A little background, i started squatting and dead lifting with bad form about 3 years ago, ended up with chronic knee pain, got an MRI and the doctor said nothing is wrong just inflammation.
    I told him I lifted and he suggested fixing my form, since my left knee was quite a bit smaller then my right. That's when i stumbled onto SS and started completely over with just the bar.
    The pain got a lot better but it still feels weak after deads over 365, and squats over 325 (my maxes on both are 445/405 respectively).

    My questions are,
    Would this template be right for me?
    If so can i run it without dropping my maxes/still make strength progress?
    I've also started mountain biking which has also helped a lot with the pain, can I still do 1 to 2 days a week of that as well?
    I'm 34 220 lbs and looking to go be in a deficit so I can be around the 200 mark, is all of this feasible in a deficit?

    thanks for all the great info from you and the barbell medicine team, I really enjoy the forums and the videos!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Brad Wright View Post
      Hey Michael Ray,

      I've a few questions about the Knee Rehab template before I purchase it.
      A little background, i started squatting and dead lifting with bad form about 3 years ago, ended up with chronic knee pain, got an MRI and the doctor said nothing is wrong just inflammation.
      I told him I lifted and he suggested fixing my form, since my left knee was quite a bit smaller then my right. That's when i stumbled onto SS and started completely over with just the bar.
      The pain got a lot better but it still feels weak after deads over 365, and squats over 325 (my maxes on both are 445/405 respectively).

      My questions are,
      Would this template be right for me?
      If so can i run it without dropping my maxes/still make strength progress?
      I've also started mountain biking which has also helped a lot with the pain, can I still do 1 to 2 days a week of that as well?
      I'm 34 220 lbs and looking to go be in a deficit so I can be around the 200 mark, is all of this feasible in a deficit?

      thanks for all the great info from you and the barbell medicine team, I really enjoy the forums and the videos!
      Hey Brad Wright thanks for the questions.
      ,
      I'm curious - what has programming looked like for you recently? Are you using RPE? There may be programming changes you can make, if you are still running SSLP, that will help rather than needing to run the 16 week knee rehab template. Also - how familiar are you with our stance on training technique, performance, and pain perception?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Michael Ray View Post

        Hey Brad Wright thanks for the questions.
        ,
        I'm curious - what has programming looked like for you recently? Are you using RPE? There may be programming changes you can make, if you are still running SSLP, that will help rather than needing to run the 16 week knee rehab template. Also - how familiar are you with our stance on training technique, performance, and pain perception?
        Michael Ray
        After SSLP last may I started a 4 day Texas Method split went through November with that. After that I did the main lifts each once a week with some higher rep accessories for hypertrophy which ended in January, and have been doing 4 days a week main lift every day, with 2 to 3 variations of those lifts throughout the week. Example: Squat, rack pulls, incline bench, pin press, with some light ab work.
        I am not using RPE but am using 1 RM percentages on how i feel that day, light days being 60 - 70%, med days 70-80%, and heavy days 80-90%.
        I'm not to familiar with barbell medicine "training technique, performance, and pain perception", but am up to learning.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Brad Wright View Post

          Michael Ray
          After SSLP last may I started a 4 day Texas Method split went through November with that. After that I did the main lifts each once a week with some higher rep accessories for hypertrophy which ended in January, and have been doing 4 days a week main lift every day, with 2 to 3 variations of those lifts throughout the week. Example: Squat, rack pulls, incline bench, pin press, with some light ab work.
          I am not using RPE but am using 1 RM percentages on how i feel that day, light days being 60 - 70%, med days 70-80%, and heavy days 80-90%.
          I'm not to familiar with barbell medicine "training technique, performance, and pain perception", but am up to learning.
          Gotcha. I definitely suggest implementing Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE) to help guide the path with training.
          RPE is asking yourself the question, on a scale of 0 - 10 how difficult was this set (0 = not difficult at all and 10 being extremely difficult). Another way to think about RPE is Reps in Reserve (RIR). RIR is equivalent to asking yourself, how many more reps could I have completed for this set (0 = 10 more reps, and 10 = no more reps).

          The other metric we advocate for is session RPE (sRPE) - which is asking yourself a similar question to RPE but at the end of your session - on a scale of 0 - 10 how difficult/fatiguing was this session (0 = not at all/inactive - 10 = hardest session ever completed).

          These guidelines help manipulate loading appropriately over time based on how you are feeling overall rather than chasing any particular percentages/numbers. Often we use both subjective and objective markers. Meaning, hit a top set of 5 reps at RPE 7 (80%). - but the caveat is only strive for 80% or greater based on your RPE rating, in other words RPE is paramount here. This is also what the research is continuously showing regarding injury risk reduction and performance. Check out this talk we did a few months back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V43mSQEjZY8

          More to the point for what you are describing - if a person is continuously overloading (high fatigue reported and decline of objective markers) themselves (as you very well may be based on the prior programming selected) then this can be a factor that needs addressing as it relates to pain perception.
          Last edited by Michael Ray; 04-29-2019, 03:10 PM.

          Comment


          • I finished running the knee rehab template about a week ago with what seem like decent results.
            Male, age 55, 6'-0", 245 at start, 237 at completion (diet cleanup.)

            I had been doing crossfit for a few years before running SSLP followed by a 16 week HLM cycle.

            Quad tendon pain in both knees. No patella pain. Main discomfort occurred in seated positions such as driving. Some discomfort climbing/descending stairs.
            Pain at beginning of workouts would decrease to nothing after warming up and getting some weight on the bar.

            Post rehab my right knee is 90% pain free and continues to improve. The left knee has improved some but to a much lesser degree.

            I'm currently a week into the Bridge 2.0 and doing OK. The knees are still achy afterwards but part of that is probably age.

            My plan was to finish the Bridge and run another HLM cycle or maybe the 12-week strength template followed by a repeat of the knee rehab template.
            Does that sound reasonable?

            Thanks for great template.


            Comment


            • I am interested in purchasing the knee rehab template, having suffered for many years from mild to moderate knee pain. I have been diagnosed with PFPS, and did benefit from what I understand to have been a conventional PT program. I understand there is a lot of tempo work. I have some health issues that require me to take medication that causes lightheadedness. Tempo squats aggravate this side effect, to quite a greater extent than any other thing I do in the gym. Can I still benefit from the program despite my inability to tempo squat at anything above about a 5 RPE?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by jrbiii View Post
                I finished running the knee rehab template about a week ago with what seem like decent results.
                Male, age 55, 6'-0", 245 at start, 237 at completion (diet cleanup.)

                I had been doing crossfit for a few years before running SSLP followed by a 16 week HLM cycle.

                Quad tendon pain in both knees. No patella pain. Main discomfort occurred in seated positions such as driving. Some discomfort climbing/descending stairs.
                Pain at beginning of workouts would decrease to nothing after warming up and getting some weight on the bar.

                Post rehab my right knee is 90% pain free and continues to improve. The left knee has improved some but to a much lesser degree.

                I'm currently a week into the Bridge 2.0 and doing OK. The knees are still achy afterwards but part of that is probably age.

                My plan was to finish the Bridge and run another HLM cycle or maybe the 12-week strength template followed by a repeat of the knee rehab template.
                Does that sound reasonable?

                Thanks for great template.

                Hey jrbiii - thanks for purchasing and trying the template. Sounds like overall the process was helpful for you. I think the plan you've outlined is a good idea. Although you likely don't need to re-run the knee rehab template unless you have a severe increase in symptoms with little to no resolve over time.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by GlobularFluster View Post
                  I am interested in purchasing the knee rehab template, having suffered for many years from mild to moderate knee pain. I have been diagnosed with PFPS, and did benefit from what I understand to have been a conventional PT program. I understand there is a lot of tempo work. I have some health issues that require me to take medication that causes lightheadedness. Tempo squats aggravate this side effect, to quite a greater extent than any other thing I do in the gym. Can I still benefit from the program despite my inability to tempo squat at anything above about a 5 RPE?
                  Without a consult and diving deeper into your situation, for PFPS - I'm fine with speeding up the repetitions to a faster tempo or normal pace. Overall, what appears to matter with PFPS is strengthening the surrounding musculature with exercise - which the template will likely accomplish for those dealing with PFPS.

                  Comment


                  • GlobularFluster
                    GlobularFluster commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Would you recommend I pursue a consult or should I just buy the template?

                  • Michael Ray
                    Michael Ray commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Completely up to you. If you are experiencing side-effects with medication that is interfering with desired life activities, I do recommend checking with your prescribing physician.

                • Doc - Cardio question as I look to start the template due to patellar tendinitis that has creeped up on me from squatting.

                  What would you recommend for 2-3 sessions of conditioning work per week? (either anerobic or aerobic) I have past experience with this issue caused by running, I know that is out at least initially.

                  I attempted rowing, and this seems to exacerbate the condition (during the movement at least). I have access to treadmills, ellipticals, and spin bikes.

                  Thanks

                  Comment


                  • Hi , I made a pretty dumb mistake . Week 2-6 I didn’t perform the tempos and misread the instruction for phase 2. Would you suggest that I start week 7-13 with the tempos or go back to week 2 and start over with the tempo work? Thank you in advance

                    Comment


                    • For phase 2 , do I perform the other exercises with tempos or Just the main bilateral move 1?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sonnny9 View Post
                        Hi , I made a pretty dumb mistake . Week 2-6 I didn’t perform the tempos and misread the instruction for phase 2. Would you suggest that I start week 7-13 with the tempos or go back to week 2 and start over with the tempo work? Thank you in advance
                        Sonnny9 I typically recommend sticking with LISS in the beginning stages. You can utilize any equipment you'd like in order to complete LISS - provided it's tolerable during and after training.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sonnny9 View Post
                          For phase 2 , do I perform the other exercises with tempos or Just the main bilateral move 1?
                          Sonnny9 Lower body exercises are to be at tempo (bilateral and single leg).

                          Comment


                          • I did not perform the low body tempos at week 2-6 because I misread the instructions, should I continue the following weeks with the tempo work or go back to square one and start all over again from week 2 with tempo training ? I apologize in advance because I asked this before but was still unsure

                            Comment


                            • Sonnny9
                              Sonnny9 commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Oh also , how would I do the leg extension for isometrics , like would I just hold it the position at knees locked out ?

                          • Originally posted by Sonnny9 View Post
                            I did not perform the low body tempos at week 2-6 because I misread the instructions, should I continue the following weeks with the tempo work or go back to square one and start all over again from week 2 with tempo training ? I apologize in advance because I asked this before but was still unsure
                            It really depends on your level of symptoms and how you've been tolerating loading. If you've been progressing without issue, then I wouldn't worry about making a lot of changes and keep moving forward. Regarding isometrics on knee extension - typically it is recommended between 30 and 60 degrees of knee flexion for holds. See photo for reference.

                            Comment


                            • Sonnny9
                              Sonnny9 commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Thank you very much sir
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