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  • Hi there! I just purchased the template. Ive been dealing with some sort of knee/quads tendon area pain after nationals (powerlifting). The thing is i dont experience any pain or maybe only slight discomfort when i squat or deadlift(sumo).the pain is more 1-2 days after and can range from mild to moderate(secere iff i did too much like squatting 2 day in a row....). So i think im more into phase 2. I was wondering if allowing a day for squat and a second for deads is a good idea. Something along the line of

    goblet squat (or belt squat)
    upper movement
    hb squat tempo
    rdl or sldl

    Goblet squat
    sumo deadlift
    single leg squat movement (maybe bulg split squat)

    the other days ill be benching/shoulder work/isometrics
    slowly progressing by adding an other squat/deadlift days (was squatting and deadlifring twice a week prior to the problem)

    thx for all the infos

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Phil View Post
      Hi there! I just purchased the template. Ive been dealing with some sort of knee/quads tendon area pain after nationals (powerlifting). The thing is i dont experience any pain or maybe only slight discomfort when i squat or deadlift(sumo).the pain is more 1-2 days after and can range from mild to moderate(secere iff i did too much like squatting 2 day in a row....). So i think im more into phase 2. I was wondering if allowing a day for squat and a second for deads is a good idea. Something along the line of

      goblet squat (or belt squat)
      upper movement
      hb squat tempo
      rdl or sldl

      Goblet squat
      sumo deadlift
      single leg squat movement (maybe bulg split squat)

      the other days ill be benching/shoulder work/isometrics
      slowly progressing by adding an other squat/deadlift days (was squatting and deadlifring twice a week prior to the problem)

      thx for all the infos
      Phil thanks for purchasing the template. What you've outlined is perfectly fine. I agree - it sounds like you are good to start with Phase 2. However, I wouldn't bother with doing 2 squat patters plus a single leg squat patter on the same day. Rather go with one squat and one single leg.

      Example:

      Day 1 = HBS squat ate tempo, RDL or SLDL, and step-ups/split-squats/leg extension

      Day 2 = Belt Squat/Goblet Squat, Sumo Deadlift, Single-Leg Squat.

      Keep us posted.

      Comment


      • Hi! I recently purchased the knee rehab template at the advice of Dr.Feigenbaum in my post over on the training forum (provided link at the bottom).

        I have been having knee pain during the squat on my left leg at the bottom of squats and after higher intensity sumo dead lifts. The pain occurs on the outside of the left leg underneath the kneecap. The pain has been pretty persistent for about 12 weeks now. I tried rehabbing myself it via load management. It was not really working, so I took a dive into this knee rehab template.

        I'm currently on week 1 day 2 and I'm having a few issues.

        1. I do not have a decline squat block so I'm using some weight plates to lift my heel. I am losing my balance at the bottom of the biofeedback movement whenever my symptoms allow me to get that low. Should I use my other leg to balance myself or is it possible that my setup is not correct?

        1. For the single leg isometric exercise, I picked single leg squats because I'm not going to have access to a leg extension machine for all 7 days. I'm having a hard time completing the 45 second holds as prescribed due to my symptoms. It seems to be very hard for me to keep the hold when my left leg is bent behind me. Is it acceptable to reduce the times on the hold to 30 sec (or lower) so I can complete the sets, or should I try to do an exercise where I can reduce the load until I can reach 45 seconds on each leg?

        Link to my post in training where i go over a little bit more of my training history if that is helpful:
        https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/fo...o-do-from-here

        Comment


        • HI Michael, just purchased the knee rehab template a couple of weeks ago...after some recurring knee pain popped up again. Previously I would've taken a month or so off squatting until I could squat pain free...then hurriedly LP my way back to where I was previously! Started week 1 immediately after this knee pain came back....it was slightly uncomfortable but on phase two now...and squatting tempo, bare knees with very little discomfort. Has really encouraged me to see this process out and hopefully get a good run of training in again!

          Anyway just one quick question....for the exercise selection in Phase 2...would you recommend sticking to the same exercises week in/week out, or day in/day out? For example Day 1 I did DL, Low Bar Squat and Bulgarian SS....should I just continue with this 3 times a week for the entirety of Phase 2? Or is it ok to change the DL, Squat and Single Leg movements each day...but keep the same pattern week to week for Phase 2?

          Thanks as always.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by norb View Post
            Hi! I recently purchased the knee rehab template at the advice of Dr.Feigenbaum in my post over on the training forum (provided link at the bottom).

            I have been having knee pain during the squat on my left leg at the bottom of squats and after higher intensity sumo dead lifts. The pain occurs on the outside of the left leg underneath the kneecap. The pain has been pretty persistent for about 12 weeks now. I tried rehabbing myself it via load management. It was not really working, so I took a dive into this knee rehab template.

            I'm currently on week 1 day 2 and I'm having a few issues.

            1. I do not have a decline squat block so I'm using some weight plates to lift my heel. I am losing my balance at the bottom of the biofeedback movement whenever my symptoms allow me to get that low. Should I use my other leg to balance myself or is it possible that my setup is not correct?

            1. For the single leg isometric exercise, I picked single leg squats because I'm not going to have access to a leg extension machine for all 7 days. I'm having a hard time completing the 45 second holds as prescribed due to my symptoms. It seems to be very hard for me to keep the hold when my left leg is bent behind me. Is it acceptable to reduce the times on the hold to 30 sec (or lower) so I can complete the sets, or should I try to do an exercise where I can reduce the load until I can reach 45 seconds on each leg?

            Link to my post in training where i go over a little bit more of my training history if that is helpful:
            https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/fo...o-do-from-here
            norb thanks for purchasing the template. Be sure you aren't going to full depth squatting on the biofeedback test. We are just looking for 90/90 position of hip and knee. With that said, if you are struggling with balance, then you can either use your other foot or hold onto an external stable object to help with balance.

            Definitely reduce the isometric hold if you are having issues. Start as low as you can tolerate :5 seconds, :10 seconds - and build from there.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MartyMcGowan View Post
              HI Michael, just purchased the knee rehab template a couple of weeks ago...after some recurring knee pain popped up again. Previously I would've taken a month or so off squatting until I could squat pain free...then hurriedly LP my way back to where I was previously! Started week 1 immediately after this knee pain came back....it was slightly uncomfortable but on phase two now...and squatting tempo, bare knees with very little discomfort. Has really encouraged me to see this process out and hopefully get a good run of training in again!

              Anyway just one quick question....for the exercise selection in Phase 2...would you recommend sticking to the same exercises week in/week out, or day in/day out? For example Day 1 I did DL, Low Bar Squat and Bulgarian SS....should I just continue with this 3 times a week for the entirety of Phase 2? Or is it ok to change the DL, Squat and Single Leg movements each day...but keep the same pattern week to week for Phase 2?

              Thanks as always.
              MartyMcGowan thanks for purchasing the template and glad to hear it's helping so far!

              I'm fine with you altering movements each session, provided you are keeping them the same week to week. Does that make sense? I'd also stick to the number of bilateral/single leg movements prescribed.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Michael Ray View Post

                MartyMcGowan thanks for purchasing the template and glad to hear it's helping so far!

                I'm fine with you altering movements each session, provided you are keeping them the same week to week. Does that make sense? I'd also stick to the number of bilateral/single leg movements prescribed.
                That makes perfect sense Michael...thank you! Ps 303 tempo, 6 sets of 15 is absolute torture!!! Serious DOMs for the first time in a while!!! )))

                Comment


                • Greetings, I have adult onset osgood-schlatter in both knees. This is causing frequent pain through irritation of the patella tenon. Most likely causing some sort of inflammatory reaction. Plan is to go for surgery in 3 months to remove the “lumps”. In MRI looks reasonably good in regards to surgery, and there is a good possibility they won’t get totally messed up.

                  Would it make sense to run this template prehab style before the operation? Would this be suitable template for post op rehab for this condition?

                  Thanks!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jussi View Post
                    Greetings, I have adult onset osgood-schlatter in both knees. This is causing frequent pain through irritation of the patella tenon. Most likely causing some sort of inflammatory reaction. Plan is to go for surgery in 3 months to remove the “lumps”. In MRI looks reasonably good in regards to surgery, and there is a good possibility they won’t get totally messed up.

                    Would it make sense to run this template prehab style before the operation? Would this be suitable template for post op rehab for this condition?

                    Thanks!
                    Can you provide some background of your case?
                    Age? Recent symptom onset? What management have you tried prior to considering surgery? Prior activity level leading up to this? Current goals?

                    Comment


                    • Jussi
                      Jussi commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Thank you for your answer. Male 44y. Condition started at 14y (basketball) and caused rather sizable lumps to be grown to both knees. No rest at the time which probably did not help. If I do not train no pain unless kneeling, which was the case from 25y to 35y . After starting to train again, pain and swelling after workout. During workout after warmup with sleeves practically no pain. Surgeons estimation is that the extra strech caused to the patella tenant causes irritation and inflammation which is behind the pain and swelling. Main concern is the constant irritation and inflammation which might cause long term issues with the patella tenant. Due how the excess bone growth has happened, surgery should be reasonably low risk and likely can be done without totally messing the patella tenant.

                      50/50 case does it make sense to operate or not, currently leaning 51/49 towards yes, as in 10 years the knees will be a mess anyway if I continue training.

                    • Michael Ray
                      Michael Ray commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Gotcha. I recommend getting a consult with us so we can help advise on your case. Typically the recommendation is to attempt conservative management initially before opting for surgery. Conservative management would include education about your situation and management of loading - which we can help with. Happy to be of help. If you wanted to perform the knee template in the meantime, this likely isn't an issue and may be helpful.

                  • Hey Mike,

                    I've been struggling on and off with what I believe to be patellar tendinopathy for close to 3 months now. My coach and I have been trying to manage it together but to no avail, so I figured it's time to give this template a try. Despite my current knee issues, my deadlifting is going amazingly well and my coach will still program those for me. Currently I'm deadlifting twice per week, pause DL's Monday for 3x5, and conventional Thursday 2x5, so it's fairly low volume.

                    My question is: is there any modifications I should make to the template so that my deadlifts don't interfere with my progress? For phase 2 I was originally planning on choosing 2 bilateral squat movements while letting my coach program my deadlifting and upper body lifts for me but I want to coordinate it the best I can. I realize that choosing 2 bilateral squat movements may be too much in addition to the deadlifting I already have programmed so should i just choose 1 bilateral movement and 1 single leg movement? Thanks!
                    Last edited by Shlentz; 06-04-2019, 11:32 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Just purchased the knee template, but I feel stuck already. I've been doing SSLP for 3 weeks, but my squat and deadlift have caused a great deal of grief for my left knee. Been diagnosed with "acute onset early arthritis" as shown in an MRI and exam. Doing the exercises causes pain and trouble walking, even over 24 hours.

                      I wanted to start the knee template to see if I could gradually build up the surrounding muscles with less loading than the regular squat/deadlift. However, I cannot even come close to complete the biofeedback test. There's no way I can squat on one leg - I tried it and lasted 1 sec. So where do I go from here. Does the template assume the athlete is pretty fit despite the injury? Is the template only for those "injured" or is it suitable for someone with osteoarthritis?

                      Background: I'm 40yo female 200 lbs and have had two knee surgeries in the right knee (which is doing fabulously well) and now have major issues in the left knee. I have no problem working through pain, (motion is lotion) but it's majorly interfering with my daily life for more than 24 hours and I'm icing/NSAIDs constantly in order to keep up with my LP.

                      Any input would be hugely appreciated.

                      Thanks!

                      Comment


                      • An update from week 7 of the template and a quick question.

                        Update: Things are going great. I had a little problem with overdoing it with the weight on the bar at first, but I've since corrected that. My symptoms have gone from a sharp pain when getting off the couch to more or an overall "achy" feeling to a "tiredness" from day to day. Overall I'm extremely happy with the results.

                        The Question: I'm looking ahead to phase 3 and the exercise selection and I noticed for the second exercise for each day there's a mix of single leg and double leg exercises. Any recommendations on whether one should choose a single or double leg exercise?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Shlentz View Post
                          Hey Mike,

                          I've been struggling on and off with what I believe to be patellar tendinopathy for close to 3 months now. My coach and I have been trying to manage it together but to no avail, so I figured it's time to give this template a try. Despite my current knee issues, my deadlifting is going amazingly well and my coach will still program those for me. Currently I'm deadlifting twice per week, pause DL's Monday for 3x5, and conventional Thursday 2x5, so it's fairly low volume.

                          My question is: is there any modifications I should make to the template so that my deadlifts don't interfere with my progress? For phase 2 I was originally planning on choosing 2 bilateral squat movements while letting my coach program my deadlifting and upper body lifts for me but I want to coordinate it the best I can. I realize that choosing 2 bilateral squat movements may be too much in addition to the deadlifting I already have programmed so should i just choose 1 bilateral movement and 1 single leg movement? Thanks!
                          Great questions. This would really depend on your prior training history leading up to this point. If you are concerned about too much loading to the area then you can start with one bilateral squat movement, two deadlift movements, and one single leg squat movement. I think it'd be fine to let your coach continue to program for non-provocative movements.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by jbean40 View Post
                            Just purchased the knee template, but I feel stuck already. I've been doing SSLP for 3 weeks, but my squat and deadlift have caused a great deal of grief for my left knee. Been diagnosed with "acute onset early arthritis" as shown in an MRI and exam. Doing the exercises causes pain and trouble walking, even over 24 hours.

                            I wanted to start the knee template to see if I could gradually build up the surrounding muscles with less loading than the regular squat/deadlift. However, I cannot even come close to complete the biofeedback test. There's no way I can squat on one leg - I tried it and lasted 1 sec. So where do I go from here. Does the template assume the athlete is pretty fit despite the injury? Is the template only for those "injured" or is it suitable for someone with osteoarthritis?

                            Background: I'm 40yo female 200 lbs and have had two knee surgeries in the right knee (which is doing fabulously well) and now have major issues in the left knee. I have no problem working through pain, (motion is lotion) but it's majorly interfering with my daily life for more than 24 hours and I'm icing/NSAIDs constantly in order to keep up with my LP.

                            Any input would be hugely appreciated.

                            Thanks!
                            Hey jbean40 thanks for purchasing the knee rehab template. What lead to the MRI and diagnosis?

                            For the biofeedback test - you can try holding onto an external stable surface or use the opposite leg as a "kick-stand" of sorts. The template is suitable for someone in your situation but we should also likely have a discussion about the diagnosis you've been given. At 40 years of age - saying someone has knee OA isn't something that would be abnormal. We have good data on the prevalence of knee OA in asymptomatic populations (no pain and no dysfunction). In other words, the knee OA may be a small piece of the puzzle but what's more important is helping you cope with the symptoms you are experiencing, gain a new understanding of pain, and get you back to the activities you'd like to accomplish. If the biofeedback test isn't possible, then I'm fine with you skipping it and going to isometrics for week 1. Keep me posted and I"m happy to consult with you if you feel it is needed.

                            Comment


                            • jbean40
                              jbean40 commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Okay, great! Thanks for your reply. I’ve tried holding onto an external surface and using my other leg as a kickstand, but still am unable to do it. I’m going to try and just skip it and try the isometrics for week 1. To give you a little background on my OA diagnosis: my right knee developed a cyst around the meniscus area, but the meniscus wasn’t actually torn or creating the cyst. The surgeon fixed that, but then prescribed no PT afterwards and within 6 months I had significant swelling, little range of motion, giving out of the knee, and pain going up and down the stairs and the like. After an MRI of the knee, we discovered I had over 25 pieces of debriment in the knee. Got those removed and the bones shaved down, got lots of great PT (that also helped me reassess the concept of pain) and it’s now handling everything I throw at it. Fast forward 6 months and my LEFT knee is now experiencing the same symptoms of inflammation, range of motion, giving out that the right was, but from MRI, not “enough” debriment is present to warrant the surgery. So I turned to SS to help me strengthen and deal with symptoms, but they continue to be a problem for over 24, even 48 hours after training (meaning, stairs are very painful, swelling, slightest movement can cause intense momentary pain. My orthopedist is a moron when it comes to handling the symptoms (he recommends icing it and not using it at all). PT is affirming that SS is a good way to go, but alas, I can’t do the LP even when pushing through a lot of pain and swelling. Anyway, probably just gave you TMI, but thought it might help to have the info. I’ll let you know how the isometrics go. Thanks again Michael!

                            • Michael Ray
                              Michael Ray commented
                              Editing a comment
                              I commend your willingness to strengthen the area and this is what the research is showing us as helpful for knee OA long term. With that said, my biggest complaint about SS is the focus on chasing numbers and a forced weekly add of weight to the lifts. Right now our focus for you should be finding tolerable loading to the area over time to help manage symptoms and improve function. This is a much different focus and we prefer to use RPE to guide the rehab and training path. Keep me posted on isometrics. If anything, a consult and working with us will allow us to guide this path for you and have open lines of communication as you need us.

                          • Originally posted by Therealredding View Post
                            An update from week 7 of the template and a quick question.

                            Update: Things are going great. I had a little problem with overdoing it with the weight on the bar at first, but I've since corrected that. My symptoms have gone from a sharp pain when getting off the couch to more or an overall "achy" feeling to a "tiredness" from day to day. Overall I'm extremely happy with the results.

                            The Question: I'm looking ahead to phase 3 and the exercise selection and I noticed for the second exercise for each day there's a mix of single leg and double leg exercises. Any recommendations on whether one should choose a single or double leg exercise?
                            Hey Therealredding - glad things are trending up for you! For exercise selection for phase 3, I typically prefer to select one bilateral and one single-leg for each session but there's no right or wrong answer here.

                            Comment

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