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  • Soreness in my knee after training

    Hey guys,

    I am 27, been strength training with barbells for about 2 years, been using the Legacy Strength Template and Legacy Hypertrophy Template on rotation since January 2019. My only goal was to get stronger in my 1 rep max for the squat, bench and deadlift. 6 weeks ago I decided I was going to lose weight and have begun to reduce calories.

    1 week ago, I was on the week 3 day 1 of the Hypertrophy Template and got a PR of 162.5kg of [email protected] on my competition squat. No pain or issues during that session. I went home and sat around home most of the day like I normally do.

    However, about 2 hours after that session, I started to get really sore on the top of my right knee, around the top of my knee cap. Getting up from the couch or climbing upstairs was really uncomfortable and I felt considerable pain. Not enough pain to stop me from doing it, but I had to move quite slowly and still felt very sore. It also hurts when I bend and hold my leg at anything beyond 30 degrees. Also pushing or moving my knee cap also causes some mild discomfort.

    I was still feeling quite sore and uncomfortable for the rest of the day and the day after. The next day after that I went back to training as scheduled, where I was doing my competition deadlifts, competition benching, and leg pressing for myo reps. While I felt some mild discomfort during all these exercises, I was able to push through with no considerable pain.

    However a couple hours later it got really sore again. This is still happening a week later, even though I have reduced the weight on the bar for squats and with my knee feeling ok (some mild discomfort) while training, but feeling really sore and uncomfortable afterwards and the next day.

    I am not sure what to do from here, it seems that squats and leg pressing aggravate it and it has not been getting better over the week. No swelling or anything else is happening.

    Should I just keep training and see where I am in a week or so? Should I stop squatting for a week and see how it is?

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Patrick Chaplin

  • #2
    Originally posted by Patorikku View Post
    Hey guys,

    Should I just keep training and see where I am in a week or so? Should I stop squatting for a week and see how it is?

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Patrick Chaplin
    Patorikku sorry to hear about the recent knee symptoms. Typically we recommend continuing to train but adjust load to allow for tolerable symptoms during and after training. If you are making adjustments to loading but still noticing increased symptoms after training then more adjustments likely need to be made. How have you been adjusting load? My usual initial recommendation is drop RPE by a point.

    Comment


    • Patorikku
      Patorikku commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for your reply Michael. I had dropped the intensity from a top working set at RPE 8 to RPE 7 or 6.5. While it made training tolerable, it didn't fix the soreness.

      However, I tweaked my shoulder yesterday while overhead pressing. Now the pain and stiffness was pretty bad in my shoulder after training, but my knee is far less sore now between or during sessions.

      My brain apparently can only tolerate pain in one area.

      I'll be sure to update this post later this week but it looks like I am improving with my knee.

  • #3
    Patorikku Sorry to hear about the shoulder. How have you been managing? Has adjusting loading been helping?

    Comment


    • Patorikku
      Patorikku commented
      Editing a comment
      Hey Michael,

      Shoulder is better now.

      My knee is still uncomfortable in and out of training, but a little better than it was when it started. I have dropped my squat and leg press movements to RPE 6, but at 3-5 sets. Overall, I think it is improving, just very slowly. In general, my knee is not as uncomfortable as it was a few weeks ago. On the bright side, since my squats are not fatiguing me much during my session, I have plenty of energy and focus to increase my bench and deadlift.

      I think I will continue this for another 2-3 weeks and see how it is from there. Would you recommend increasing the weight at all assuming the movement is feeling good?

    • Patorikku
      Patorikku commented
      Editing a comment
      Also, I have ordered some knee sleeves to see if that will help at all (was going to at some point anyway as I plan to use them in PL competition).

    • Michael Ray
      Michael Ray commented
      Editing a comment
      Hey - you can also try to increase the repetitions while adding in a tempo to see if you tolerate loading a bit better. You can also adjust frequency of provocative movements as well as adjusting rest days between sessions. It's easy for us to get stuck in the same mindset with training - "I have to go and squat M/W/F/Sat of every week or else..." but really these are all arbitrary constructs that we can adapt to our life and life situations. Knee sleeves - I'm fine with them in these scenarios provided it isn't giving a false sense of confidence that leads to over-reaching beyond our current abilities with symptoms.

  • #4
    Hey Michael,

    I am just starting my second run of the Legacy 4 day 12 Week Strength Template. My squats would normally look like for the first 4 weeks:

    Day 1: Competition Squat with belt:
    [email protected]
    Then 20% off for 5 sets of 5

    Day 2: 3-0-3 Tempo Squat:
    Work up to [email protected]
    Then 5% off for 1 more set of 10 reps.

    Day 3: Squat, no belt:
    Work up to [email protected]
    Then 5% off for 2-3 Sets of 4 reps.

    Day 4: Leg Press
    Work up to [email protected]
    Take 5% off for 2-3 sets of 10.


    I am thinking of changing this for the next 4 weeks to:

    Day 1: 2 count paused Competition Squat with belt:
    5 sets of 8 at RPE 6.

    Day 2: Bench Press accessory:
    Work up to [email protected]
    Then 5% off for 1 more set of 10 reps.

    Day 3: Squat, no belt:
    Work up to [email protected] for 5 Sets

    Day 4: Leg Press
    Work up to [email protected] for 5 sets


    Overall, my main goals for the rest of the year are to:
    1. Get rid of this discomfort in my knee.
    2. Decrease my body-weight (going well so far) and;
    3. Increase my 1RM for the Bench Press (going well so far).

    So I do not mind any decreases in my 1RM for the squat. As of yesterday, I am committed to a long term plan of rehabbing my knee, as it did not resolve itself over the last 35 days.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    Comment


    • #5
      Originally posted by Patorikku View Post
      Hey Michael,

      I am just starting my second run of the Legacy 4 day 12 Week Strength Template. My squats would normally look like for the first 4 weeks:

      Day 1: Competition Squat with belt:
      [email protected]
      Then 20% off for 5 sets of 5

      Day 2: 3-0-3 Tempo Squat:
      Work up to [email protected]
      Then 5% off for 1 more set of 10 reps.

      Day 3: Squat, no belt:
      Work up to [email protected]
      Then 5% off for 2-3 Sets of 4 reps.

      Day 4: Leg Press
      Work up to [email protected]
      Take 5% off for 2-3 sets of 10.


      I am thinking of changing this for the next 4 weeks to:

      Day 1: 2 count paused Competition Squat with belt:
      5 sets of 8 at RPE 6.

      Day 2: Bench Press accessory:
      Work up to [email protected]
      Then 5% off for 1 more set of 10 reps.

      Day 3: Squat, no belt:
      Work up to [email protected] for 5 Sets

      Day 4: Leg Press
      Work up to [email protected] for 5 sets


      Overall, my main goals for the rest of the year are to:
      1. Get rid of this discomfort in my knee.
      2. Decrease my body-weight (going well so far) and;
      3. Increase my 1RM for the Bench Press (going well so far).

      So I do not mind any decreases in my 1RM for the squat. As of yesterday, I am committed to a long term plan of rehabbing my knee, as it did not resolve itself over the last 35 days.

      Any thoughts would be appreciated.
      Seems like a reasonable starting point, and that's an important aspect of this discussion - finding a tolerable starting point to build from. Personally - I'd probably keep in tempo on any provocative movement to regulate top end external intensity. I'd also likely add in single-leg work 2-3 x / week. Keep us posted.
      Last edited by Michael Ray; 07-27-2019, 07:23 PM.

      Comment


      • #6
        Hi Michael,

        After trying the above for one week, I was still experiencing the same discomfort and pain. I have created my own 16 week plan. I have reduced the weight, volume and frequency, Over the 16 week period, I add back on weight, volume, and frequency. As well as changing the squat variations to my normal training program over time.
        Date Week Squat 1 Sets Reps Weight % of e1RM Sets3 Reps4 Weight5 % of e1RM6 Squat 2 Sets7 Reps8 Weight9 % of e1RM10 Squat 3 Sets11 Reps12 Weight13 % of e1RM14 Squat 4 Sets15 Reps16 Weight17 % of e1RM18 Average Intensity Total Reps
        21/07/2019 Week 1 3-0-3 tempo 3 10 60 29% 29% 30
        28/07/2019 Week 2 3-0-3 tempo 3 10 70 34% 3-0-3 tempo 3 10 80 39% Tempo Leg Press 3 10 120 27% 33% 90
        4/08/2019 Week 3 3-0-3 tempo 3 10 80 39% 5-3-0 tempo 3 6 80 39% Tempo Leg Press 3 10 110 25% 34% 78
        11/08/2019 Week 4 3-0-3 tempo 4 10 95 46% 5-3-0 tempo 3 6 90 44% Tempo Leg Press 3 10 120 27% 39% 88
        18/08/2019 Week 5 3-0-3 tempo 4 10 105 51% Tempo Leg Press 3 10 135 31% 5-3-0 tempo 3 6 95 46% 43% 88
        25/08/2019 Week 6 2ct Paused Squat 4 8 115 56% Tempo Leg Press 4 10 135 31% 3-0-3 tempo 3 6 100 49% 45% 90
        1/09/2019 Week 7 2ct Paused Squat 4 8 120 59% Tempo Leg Press 4 10 135 31% 3-0-3 tempo 3 6 105 51% 47% 90
        8/09/2019 Week 8 2ct Paused Squat 4 8 125 61% Tempo Leg Press 5 10 140 32% 3-0-3 tempo 3 6 110 54% 49% 100
        15/09/2019 Week 9 2ct Paused Squat 4 8 130 63% Leg Press 5 10 155 35% 3-0-3 tempo 3 6 115 56% 52% 100
        22/09/2019 Week 10 Squat /Belt 3 6 140 68% 3-0-3 tempo 5 15 90 44% 2ct Paused Squat 3 5 120 59% Leg Press 5 10 160 36% 52% 158
        29/09/2019 Week 11 Squat /Belt 3 6 145 71% 3-0-3 tempo 5 12 95 46% 2ct Paused Squat 3 5 120 59% Leg Press 5 10 180 41% 54% 143
        6/10/2019 Week 12 Squat /Belt 3 6 150 73% 3-0-3 tempo 4 10 105 51% 2ct Paused Squat 3 5 125 61% Leg Press 5 10 190 43% 57% 123
        13/10/2019 Week 13 Squat /Belt 3 5 150 73% 1 1 165 80% 3-0-3 tempo 4 10 110 54% Squat 3 4 130 63% Leg Press 5 10 200 45% 63% 118
        20/10/2019 Week 14 Squat /Belt 3 5 155 76% 1 1 170 83% 3-0-3 tempo 4 10 115 56% Squat 3 4 135 66% Leg Press 5 10 200 45% 65% 118
        27/10/2019 Week 15 Squat /Belt 3 5 160 78% 1 1 175 85% 3-0-3 tempo 4 10 120 59% Squat 3 4 140 68% Leg Press 5 10 220 50% 68% 118
        3/11/2019 Week 16 Squat /Belt 3 5 165 80% 1 1 180 88% 3-0-3 tempo 4 10 120 59% Squat 3 4 145 71% Leg Press 5 10 220 50% 70% 118

        I have been using this for a few weeks now and can train with much less discomfort and pain. I find that tempo work makes a big reduction is discomfort. By the end of the 16 weeks, I plan to be close to what I was squatting before.

        Note the weight is in KG.

        Any comments are appreciated.

        Comment


        • #7
          Originally posted by Patorikku View Post
          Hi Michael,

          After trying the above for one week, I was still experiencing the same discomfort and pain. I have created my own 16 week plan. I have reduced the weight, volume and frequency, Over the 16 week period, I add back on weight, volume, and frequency. As well as changing the squat variations to my normal training program over time.
          Date Week Squat 1 Sets Reps Weight % of e1RM Sets3 Reps4 Weight5 % of e1RM6 Squat 2 Sets7 Reps8 Weight9 % of e1RM10 Squat 3 Sets11 Reps12 Weight13 % of e1RM14 Squat 4 Sets15 Reps16 Weight17 % of e1RM18 Average Intensity Total Reps
          21/07/2019 Week 1 3-0-3 tempo 3 10 60 29% 29% 30
          28/07/2019 Week 2 3-0-3 tempo 3 10 70 34% 3-0-3 tempo 3 10 80 39% Tempo Leg Press 3 10 120 27% 33% 90
          4/08/2019 Week 3 3-0-3 tempo 3 10 80 39% 5-3-0 tempo 3 6 80 39% Tempo Leg Press 3 10 110 25% 34% 78
          11/08/2019 Week 4 3-0-3 tempo 4 10 95 46% 5-3-0 tempo 3 6 90 44% Tempo Leg Press 3 10 120 27% 39% 88
          18/08/2019 Week 5 3-0-3 tempo 4 10 105 51% Tempo Leg Press 3 10 135 31% 5-3-0 tempo 3 6 95 46% 43% 88
          25/08/2019 Week 6 2ct Paused Squat 4 8 115 56% Tempo Leg Press 4 10 135 31% 3-0-3 tempo 3 6 100 49% 45% 90
          1/09/2019 Week 7 2ct Paused Squat 4 8 120 59% Tempo Leg Press 4 10 135 31% 3-0-3 tempo 3 6 105 51% 47% 90
          8/09/2019 Week 8 2ct Paused Squat 4 8 125 61% Tempo Leg Press 5 10 140 32% 3-0-3 tempo 3 6 110 54% 49% 100
          15/09/2019 Week 9 2ct Paused Squat 4 8 130 63% Leg Press 5 10 155 35% 3-0-3 tempo 3 6 115 56% 52% 100
          22/09/2019 Week 10 Squat /Belt 3 6 140 68% 3-0-3 tempo 5 15 90 44% 2ct Paused Squat 3 5 120 59% Leg Press 5 10 160 36% 52% 158
          29/09/2019 Week 11 Squat /Belt 3 6 145 71% 3-0-3 tempo 5 12 95 46% 2ct Paused Squat 3 5 120 59% Leg Press 5 10 180 41% 54% 143
          6/10/2019 Week 12 Squat /Belt 3 6 150 73% 3-0-3 tempo 4 10 105 51% 2ct Paused Squat 3 5 125 61% Leg Press 5 10 190 43% 57% 123
          13/10/2019 Week 13 Squat /Belt 3 5 150 73% 1 1 165 80% 3-0-3 tempo 4 10 110 54% Squat 3 4 130 63% Leg Press 5 10 200 45% 63% 118
          20/10/2019 Week 14 Squat /Belt 3 5 155 76% 1 1 170 83% 3-0-3 tempo 4 10 115 56% Squat 3 4 135 66% Leg Press 5 10 200 45% 65% 118
          27/10/2019 Week 15 Squat /Belt 3 5 160 78% 1 1 175 85% 3-0-3 tempo 4 10 120 59% Squat 3 4 140 68% Leg Press 5 10 220 50% 68% 118
          3/11/2019 Week 16 Squat /Belt 3 5 165 80% 1 1 180 88% 3-0-3 tempo 4 10 120 59% Squat 3 4 145 71% Leg Press 5 10 220 50% 70% 118
          I have been using this for a few weeks now and can train with much less discomfort and pain. I find that tempo work makes a big reduction is discomfort. By the end of the 16 weeks, I plan to be close to what I was squatting before.

          Note the weight is in KG.

          Any comments are appreciated.
          Hey - glad to hear things are trending up for you, that's awesome. It's difficult to read through that program in it's format on the forum and it would likely require a consult for us to go through it in detail and ensure it's individualized to your needs.

          Comment


          • Patorikku
            Patorikku commented
            Editing a comment
            No worries, I can see that the format is all weird after posting it.

            I'll be sure to log my progress on here.

        • #8
          Update: I have no pain or discomfort this week, which is amazing after 10 weeks for frustration.

          Very hard to not jump the gun and add back all the weight, but I have made a decent jump (still on tempo and paused work).

          Things are good.

          Comment


          • Michael Ray
            Michael Ray commented
            Editing a comment
            This is awesome to hear! Keep embracing the process, it's easy to get impatient and rush back to prior numbers.

        • #9
          Hey Michael,

          I've had a few set backs since talking last, feeling frustrated and abit directionless with the process. Knee is still sore.

          I am considering the knee rehab template. Would you recommend?

          Comment


          • Patorikku
            Patorikku commented
            Editing a comment
            I have since purchased.

          • Michael Ray
            Michael Ray commented
            Editing a comment
            Hey - how have things been going since starting the template?

          • Patorikku
            Patorikku commented
            Editing a comment
            Hey Michael,

            I am on Week 7 of the knee rehab template. Currently doing low-bar squats, deadlifts and unilateral leg press as per the template. Finding tempo deadlifts quite hard but still able to complete the workout.

            Things are good, all symptoms have been very low or non-existent, only flairing up (albeit, only minor) once a week or so.

            Feeling good so far, can't wait to get back to regular training. Fellow gym-goers keep asking me if I am doing bodybuilding now (will all the high volume, lighter, tempo work). I am keen for that to be over.

            Thanks again Michael!

        • #10
          Patorikku - thanks for the update! Glad to hear things are going well overall.

          Comment


          • Patorikku
            Patorikku commented
            Editing a comment
            Hey Michael,

            Another update - starting Phase 3 today. Pain is basically gone and am feeling much more confident going back into regular training.

            Thanks again for this, I recommend this product, yourself and the BBM team to anyone who asks about my training.

        • #11
          Patorikku thanks for the update! Glad to hear you are doing well overall.

          Comment


          • #12
            Thanks Michael,

            Things are moving very well, moving weight comfortably that would have guaranteed aggravated my knee a few months ago.

            I have my last week of the knee rehab template next week. After that I am looking at the Strength III template or Legacy Hypertrophy. Any suggestions? No meets coming up.

            Comment


            • #13
              Originally posted by Patorikku View Post
              Thanks Michael,

              Things are moving very well, moving weight comfortably that would have guaranteed aggravated my knee a few months ago.

              I have my last week of the knee rehab template next week. After that I am looking at the Strength III template or Legacy Hypertrophy. Any suggestions? No meets coming up.
              That's awesome to hear. Suggestions - really depends on your goals moving forward. I don't think there's anything in particular you MUST do outside of picking a program to meet your training based goals.

              Comment

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