Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Question about the rack pull in the press template

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Question about the rack pull in the press template

    Hey there, I was wondering if there's a specific reason for the rack pulls in the press template. Or can one substitute it with another exercise to adress a more specific weak point, like deficit deadlifts for example.

    Thanks!

  • #2
    It's a mid shin rack pull and we like it as a somewhat specific deadlift variant. I don't think that any particular variation trains a "weak point" better than another (in general) and I probably wouldn't modify the template the first time around.
    Barbell Medicine "With you from bench to bedside"
    ///Website /// Instagram /// Peri™ Rx /// Whey Rx /// Barbell Medicine Podcast/// Newsletter /// Seminars ///

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
      It's a mid shin rack pull and we like it as a somewhat specific deadlift variant. I don't think that any particular variation trains a "weak point" better than another (in general) and I probably wouldn't modify the template the first time around.
      Thanks, Jordan. I'll keep the template as it is. Maybe I don't entirely get what you are saying, but what do you mean when you say that you don't think any particular variation trains a weak point better than another in general? You don't think that specifically training "weak points" is that relevant? Or you don't think the excersise selection matters that much as most variations have enough carry over anyway?

      Comment


      • #4
        Good question, Starx.

        I mean both.

        Let's consider the deficit DL vs the rack pull for a moment. Most folks would say that the deficit DL trains a "weak point" off the floor whereas the rack pull trains a "weak point" at lockout, but that seems....unlikely.

        The concept of an inherent weak point that is not the result of a person's specific anthropometric leverages (non modifiable), technique (modifiable), and overall development (modifiable) does not make sense to me.

        A lifter who is "weak off the floor" likely benefits from deficit deadlifts because it improves their technique via dedicated practice and it improves their strength via both neuromuscular and muscle cross sectional area training adaptations. They would get the same benefits from doing rack pulls - especially when done from the mid shin (it's similarly specific compared to the deficit DL) given similar volume and fatigue.

        Instead of thinking that we're training "weak points", I think we're just training, you know?
        Barbell Medicine "With you from bench to bedside"
        ///Website /// Instagram /// Peri™ Rx /// Whey Rx /// Barbell Medicine Podcast/// Newsletter /// Seminars ///

        Comment


        • PatrickD
          PatrickD commented
          Editing a comment
          This is a great answer, thank you!

      • #5
        Interresting! Thanks for the comprehensive response, I'll let that sink in for a while.

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
          A lifter who is "weak off the floor" likely benefits from deficit deadlifts because it improves their technique via dedicated practice and it improves their strength via both neuromuscular and muscle cross sectional area training adaptations. They would get the same benefits from doing rack pulls - especially when done from the mid shin (it's similarly specific compared to the deficit DL) given similar volume and fatigue.
          I get the strength improvement from rack pulls carrying over, but if there is a technique deficiency that manifests itself at a certain point in the lift, how would doing a movement that omits that portion of the lift correct it? I'm not following that part of your argument.

          Comment


          • #7
            My N=1 supports this. I finished LP @345x5 but couldn't pull 365 off the floor. During every pull session on the Bridge it was really obvious by my bar speed that my weakness was off the floor. I thought about switching Rack pulls out for deficits too but decided I didn't know enough to change the template as written. 8 weeks later I pulled 400, after losing 11 lbs -- and bar speed seems to suggest I don't have a discernible weak point now.

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by Tim K View Post

              I get the strength improvement from rack pulls carrying over, but if there is a technique deficiency that manifests itself at a certain point in the lift, how would doing a movement that omits that portion of the lift correct it? I'm not following that part of your argument.
              I think that movements with significantly different ROM by definition are less specific to the movement we're discussing and thus, have less ability to improve the technique.

              That said, I can not think of a single case where a technique issue is isolated to a single point of a lift's ROM, but not present at other points.
              Barbell Medicine "With you from bench to bedside"
              ///Website /// Instagram /// Peri™ Rx /// Whey Rx /// Barbell Medicine Podcast/// Newsletter /// Seminars ///

              Comment


              • rho
                rho commented
                Editing a comment
                What about the lift-off for DL? There's quite a bit of positioning involved right before you start the lift, which you cannot train with block/rack pulls.
                Deficits or DL up to the knees (to manage total work-load) also create confidence, for people like me, who have a hard time pulling heavy weights from the floor, but not locking them out.
                You can certainly be right that this is not an issue of strength in a certain portion of the lift. But it involves technique (and confidence) which you cannot train with block/rack pulls.

              • Austin Baraki
                Austin Baraki commented
                Editing a comment
                I could just as easily make the argument that if you're doing supra-maximal block pulls, you could build "confidence" from that too. Different people respond differently from a psychological standpoint, so we're just handwaving here. Additionally, note that we don't *only* do block pulls, or *only* do deficits. You can pull in various ways and benefit from it.
            Working...
            X