Alternate for RDLs/ Paused DLs & low back conditioning

[phonics]

I may be reducing things a bit by blaming a lift, but I seem to have an elevated risk of pain to the low back (around L4/ L5) when doing paused DLs and RDLs. (Bridge 2.0 & Hypertrophy in particular)
This has happened twice in last 4 weeks (paused DLs then RDLs) when fatigue is present (form breakdown resulting in excessive lumbar extension or maybe just movement of the lumbar in general).

The ROM during pulls that seems to be sensitive to errors in form is just below/ at the knees where the hips begin to travel forward and the torso begins to become more vertical (the ROM targeted by the 2 variants it would seem). For sumo, it's immediately off the floor if I failed to set the spine correctly.

1) Are there suitable alternatives for these variations that still target the low back through this ROM?
2) My low back seems to be my weak link regarding work capacity in general. Any good GPP for low back or is this inadvisable given the level of low back fatigue normally generated by the program itself?
3) OR, should I alter the volume/ intensity of Comp style DLs for a "medium" day and continue with the "heavy" day normally programmed for Fridays?
4) OR if I keep RDLs/ paused DLs, should I reduce the intensity and possibly increase the volume and really focus on absolute strict form through the problematic ROM?

I was doing RDLs for a set at RPE 6 during the second week of Hypertrophy template when SHTF the second time, so I'm not sure how low to go.

Thanks,
Nic

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Phonics,

I would disagree that the exercises themselves are the culprit, but rather the loading and total fatigue. If you had kept weight off the bar the outcome may be different. I don't think excessive lumbar extension, rounding, etc. reliably causes back pain either.

So for your questions:

1) Any exercise pulling from the floor trains the back through this ROM.
2) I doubt this is the case, but rather you previously had a painful experience and your subsequent threshold for pain is lowered for some period of time. I wouldn't do any remedial low back work unless you are unable to train at this point. Rather, I would lower the RPE by 1 point for all pulling exercises for this next block and go from there.
3 and 4) I would alternate the intensity as described above.

[phonics]

Thanks Jordan.

I actually did unload the bar from the previous week by 15% (50lbs) for the set of RDLs that resulted in the pain. This was not in anticipation of pain mind you, but was just a correction for poor work capacity and the feeling of dying on the platform from lack of oxygen in week 1. The bar speed off the floor made it feel like a typical double overhand warmup. However, I suspect any considerable amount of weight would have ended the same under the level of fatigue present and lowered pain tolerance as you put it. The change in bar acceleration (more so change in direction) was the exact spot where I felt something shift.

Just out of curiosity, was the 5th set of RDLs intentional for the intro week (1) of the Hypertrophy (3 day) template? I had little to no problem with upper body volume, but the lower body volume is the stuff of nightmares (literally in my case after those RDLs.) >>> keep up the good work.
I'll be more diligent with the (adjusted) target RPEs until my work capacity improves with ample allowance for the back (and, I guess, confidence in it) to heal again.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Thanks Jordan.

I actually did unload the bar from the previous week by 15% (50lbs) for the set of RDLs that resulted in the pain. This was not in anticipation of pain mind you, but was just a correction for poor work capacity and the feeling of dying on the platform from lack of oxygen in week 1. The bar speed off the floor made it feel like a typical double overhand warmup. However, I suspect any considerable amount of weight would have ended the same under the level of fatigue present and lowered pain tolerance as you put it. The change in bar acceleration (more so change in direction) was the exact spot where I felt something shift.

But nothing shifted. That's the thing I am wanting you to wrap your head around. Nothing "happened" in your back to cause this really and I'm not sure what you mean about the poor work capacity comment driving weight selection for that training week. Retrospectively, either more weight needed to be off the barbell or a different mental approach to that training session would've been advisable.

Just out of curiosity, was the 5th set of RDLs intentional for the intro week (1) of the Hypertrophy (3 day) template?

There are 3 work sets for that week and yes it was intentional.

I'll be more diligent with the (adjusted) target RPEs until my work capacity improves with ample allowance for the back (and, I guess, confidence in it) to heal again.

To clarify- there is nothing to heal from, as nothing is injured that is causing you to have a pain experience. I think the main goal should be to try and not think about it, use loads that are tolerable on provocative exercises, and move forward with your training.

[phonics]

All I was trying to say is that the previous "pain experience" was not on my mind during the RDLs where the second "pain experience" occurred. My confidence was already there from the normal workloads on DLs the Friday before. I lowered the weight for the RDLs (I thought by an appropriate amount) from the first week to clean up the form a bit (out of breath and the bar coming off the legs). During an otherwise easy warmup, there was a "pop" with a stabbing shocking sensation. I lost power followed with a tightening of the back with similar sensations when turning over in bed for a day or two. I'm not trying to sell you or myself on something traumatic happening, just words that missed their mark.

try and not think about it, use loads that are tolerable on provocative exercises, and move forward with your training.

Wow! Thanks! I almost didn't start this post, but you've really set me straight.

[phonics]

My poor attempt at sarcasm was misplaced, especially since it was aimed at one trying to help. Apologies for being stubborn and thick headed.

[phonics]

I still have trouble with the RDLs at even weights below pendlay rows, but it's more to do with controlling the rib cage and getting into the hams. Clearly a novel exercise that was overloaded.

[Leah Lutz]

This does sounds like a movement pattern that you will benefit from with some feedback and practice. You might consider posting a video check to the FB group.