1.5 mile run

[crye088]

What's up BBM crew, first time posting but big fan of the content y'all put out. I know strength training is your guys speciality, but was curious to know if there are any cardio recommendations you might have for improving my 1.5 mile run time. Currently, I'm at a 17:51 mile & a half but need to get that down to under a 12:18 within the next few months. If you're wondering why I'm training for this, it's because I'm trying to leave the NYPD for a better job in law enforcement lol any advice you guys have will be greatly appreciated!

FYI, I lift Monday, Wednesday, & Friday & have been doing cardio (1.5 mile run & intervals) on Tuesday, Thursday, & Sunday.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Crye,

Thanks for the post and your service- it is truly appreciated.

I would program more running for someone trying to improve their running. I think I would split it up like this if I had 3 days to do conditioning and where I would start:

Day 1: Aerobic Intervals: 3 minute run @ RPE 8, rest 2 minutes. Repeat 3x
Day 2: Aerobic Tempo Work: Run 10 min @ 12min 1.5 mile pace. Rest 5 min. Repeat 1x
Day 3: Longer Run: Run 30 min @ RPE 6-7

I would go up from there.

-Jordan

[crye088]

Jordan,

Thank you so much for the response. I really appreciate it & will be getting to work on this right away.

[luckyman]

Oof. Day 2 sounds a bit...erm....challenging for someone with an 18 minute 1.5 mile time?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Oof. Day 2 sounds a bit...erm....challenging for someone with an 18 minute 1.5 mile time?

Maybe. Maybe not. It really depends on the person, but the point is to hit the target pace and hang on for as long as possible.

[crye088]

Hey Jordan,

I should've asked these questions the other day but just thought of them now lol I sware, no more running questions after this.

In terms of incorporating additional cardio, do you think it would be wise to perform some short hiit sessions after the days that I lift? Ex: 30 seconds on, 1 minute off x 8-12 on a stationary bike. Or would this be too much along with what you prescribed earlier?

Lastly, could you clarify a bit on the "Day 2" from your post above? Not sure if I'm suppose to haul ass for 10 minutes on these, but a 12 min 1.5 mile pace at the moment is almost impossible for me.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Hey Jordan,

I should've asked these questions the other day but just thought of them now lol I sware, no more running questions after this.

In terms of incorporating additional cardio, do you think it would be wise to perform some short hiit sessions after the days that I lift? Ex: 30 seconds on, 1 minute off x 8-12 on a stationary bike. Or would this be too much along with what you prescribed earlier?

Lastly, could you clarify a bit on the "Day 2" from your post above? Not sure if I'm suppose to haul ass for 10 minutes on these, but a 12 min 1.5 mile pace at the moment is almost impossible for me.

I wouldn't do additional cardio, no.

Yea, I'd like you to touch the 12 min 1.5 mile pace and hold it for as long as possible, then slow down as needed to complete the 10 minutes. Rest 5 min, then do it again.

[crye088]

Alright I gotcha. Thanks again!

[philibusters]

Maybe. Maybe not. It really depends on the person, but the point is to hit the target pace and hang on for as long as possible.

I agree with luckyman. Basically you are asking somebody to run 1.25 miles in 10 miles 8 (minute per mile pace) when the person is currently running 18 minutes for 1.5 miles. It takes about 5 minutes to walk .25 miles at 3mph so if they could run 1.25 miles in 10 minutes and then just walk a lap in 5 minutes and they will have already reduced their time by 3 minutes.

I used to be a regular runner and have run 3 hours for a marathon which involved a lot of training. Endurance training is a lot like strength training in that you usually benefit from going submaximal even if its RPE 9. Going RPE 10 is hard on the body and you asking them to do two hard bouts of RPE 10 in that workout. I'd turn that second workout into another aerobic interval workout or another long slow aerobic workout. That workout would make a lot of sense if their starting point was 2 miles in 18 minutes (9 mins per mile) because running at 8 minutes per mile for 10 minutes would be a hard tempo.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

I agree with luckyman. Basically you are asking somebody to run 1.25 miles in 10 miles 8 (minute per mile pace) when the person is currently running 18 minutes for 1.5 miles. It takes about 5 minutes to walk .25 miles at 3mph so if they could run 1.25 miles in 10 minutes and then just walk a lap in 5 minutes and they will have already reduced their time by 3 minutes.

I used to be a regular runner and have run 3 hours for a marathon which involved a lot of training. Endurance training is a lot like strength training in that you usually benefit from going submaximal even if its RPE 9. Going RPE 10 is hard on the body and you asking them to do two hard bouts of RPE 10 in that workout. I'd turn that second workout into another aerobic interval workout or another long slow aerobic workout. That workout would make a lot of sense if their starting point was 2 miles in 18 minutes (9 mins per mile) because running at 8 minutes per mile for 10 minutes would be a hard tempo.

I agree that the pace is aggressive, but that's by design. When he falls off the pace it'll be fine, and the susbequent development may be more helpful at building the 1.5 mi run than another type of run. A slower initial pace may work too if desiring completion at the stated pace, sure. That said, I'm not worried about him failing the first few times due to the nature and context.

Alternatively, another aerobic interval would be a good option too, but I'm not asking anyone to run a certain distance in a certain time. Rather, it's a tempo run based on pace.

Finally, no one in this thread knows anything about Crye, so it's difficult to say what the appropriate first tempo should be, but . Regarding your last example, that would be true in some people but not in others depending on the individual (it's like comparing 1RMs to 5RMs in a way).

[philibusters]

This would be my advice:

1. Do 1 VO2 max work: Jordan basically scheduled that for you in his workout 1. The consensus in the running community is you want to run your VO2max workout at the slowest pace you can run at when running at 100% of your heart rate. For most people that is the appoxmiate pace you can hold for 15 minutes. For example I might be able to run a 5:00 mile but the slowest I can run at and be 100% of my heartrate is 5:45 min mile. The extra speed is coming from anaerobic processes. Once I hit 5:45 I have tapped out my aerobic capacity. This gives you teh best VO2max with the least amount of fatigue. You are not training your heart any harder by running 5 instead of 5:45 (though you are training your anaerobic processes harder, but if you want to train those, use 200 meter and 400 runs) and you accumulate less fatigue that way.

2. Do 1 easy aerobic run. That is the the third workout Jordan scheduled for you--30 minutes easy aerobic. I try to keep my heartrate in the 135 to 140 range when doing these types of workouts.

3. Do 1 tempo. I always ran my tempos at a speed I could race at double the length of the tempo. For example I if I was doing a 3 mile tempo, I ran it a pace I could for race 6 miles at. Since I raced year round, I pretty much almost always knee my times. When I did a 6 mile tempo I used my half marathon pace. And when I did a 12 or 13 mile tempo I used my marathon pace. My advice is is to start a 16 mile 1.5 mile pace (10:45 per mile) and run that for 8 minutes. Take a 5 minute break and repeat. I would replace Jordan's second workout with that workout. When that starts to feel to easy use a 15 minute 1.5 mile pace and when that feels too easy use a 14 minute 1.5 mile pace.

[crye088]

Didn't think a running post would get so much attention on this forum lol but in all seriousness, thanks to everyone for their comments/suggestions.

For now, I'm going to follow the layout that Jordan provided & work on progessing from there. I'll for sure keep you guys updated on how it's going, but give me at least a few weeks to put some of the road work in.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

This would be my advice:

1. Do 1 VO2 max work: Jordan basically scheduled that for you in his workout 1. The consensus in the running community is you want to run your VO2max workout at the slowest pace you can run at when running at 100% of your heart rate. For most people that is the appoxmiate pace you can hold for 15 minutes. For example I might be able to run a 5:00 mile but the slowest I can run at and be 100% of my heartrate is 5:45 min mile. The extra speed is coming from anaerobic processes. Once I hit 5:45 I have tapped out my aerobic capacity. This gives you teh best VO2max with the least amount of fatigue. You are not training your heart any harder by running 5 instead of 5:45 (though you are training your anaerobic processes harder, but if you want to train those, use 200 meter and 400 runs) and you accumulate less fatigue that way.

2. Do 1 easy aerobic run. That is the the third workout Jordan scheduled for you--30 minutes easy aerobic. I try to keep my heartrate in the 135 to 140 range when doing these types of workouts.

3. Do 1 tempo. I always ran my tempos at a speed I could race at double the length of the tempo. For example I if I was doing a 3 mile tempo, I ran it a pace I could for race 6 miles at. Since I raced year round, I pretty much almost always knee my times. When I did a 6 mile tempo I used my half marathon pace. And when I did a 12 or 13 mile tempo I used my marathon pace. My advice is is to start a 16 mile 1.5 mile pace (10:45 per mile) and run that for 8 minutes. Take a 5 minute break and repeat. I would replace Jordan's second workout with that workout. When that starts to feel to easy use a 15 minute 1.5 mile pace and when that feels too easy use a 14 minute 1.5 mile pace.

To be clear, we disagree on some things but I don't feel strongly enough to argue about it, as there are a number of ways to achieve the task. I don't think that focusing on improving VO2Max is a terribly useful strategy.

[Dotyl9h]

Yes isn't vo2max kind of a genetic/age affected parameter? In other words you're not going to increase it too much without Peds?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Yes isn't vo2max kind of a genetic/age affected parameter? In other words you're not going to increase it too much without Peds?

There are a number of things that affect VO2Max, but yes you can change it without PEDs. That said, it's not a terribly reliable indicator of performance improvement in and of itself.