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To move to intermediate programming or not to move?

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  • To move to intermediate programming or not to move?

    Dear Drs, that is the question...

    Lurker (from October last year), first time poster.

    Background:
    • Male
    • 39 years old (still for a few more months)
    • 90-ish kgs
    • 178 cms (5' 10")
    • I have a 13.5 month old at home so sleep may be compromised, but generally moderate/low stress lifestyle working in an investment bank
    • SSLP from September last year, stalled circa November (serious life stress at the time now resolved), reset, and most recent run began on a fresh start on 2 January 2018

    Current lifts on SSLP (previous max):
    • Deadlift: 150kgs
    • Squat: 120kgs (135kgs)
    • Bench press: 80kgs
    • Press: 52 kgs

    I have had my form checked via in person coaching a handful of times with SSC Carl Raghavan here in London. Will probably revisit to brush up.

    The reason I ask is that I am struggling with bench press. My squat and deadlift go up easily (+2.5kgs per session). I am getting my press up (+1kgs per session), but a bit of a struggle/grind (not overly), but I can see it slowing down to a grind soon. Bench press? Depends on the day and my frame of mind. I struggled with 79kgs last Tuesday 6 Feb 2018 getting 5, 4, 5 due to not focussing in the second set. Last Friday 9 Feb 2018 I smashed 80kgs 5, 5, 5; mentally I felt good. Today 14 Feb 2018, struggled to get 5, 4, 4+1; I failed on the concentric portion of the 5th rep in the second set. I knew I was not going to get the 5th rep of the third set, I was struggling to hold my breath for the last rep, thus racked it, reset the weights (so they wouldn't rattle and be unbalanced) and got the last rep. The latest page of my training log with videos (if permitted from SS.com): Ted's SS Novice Log - Page 6

    Is this a good time to move to intermediate programming? I am going to jump to a conclusion of yes; however, your input would be much appreciated. I have downloaded the Bridge; I am grateful for you making it available.

    I like the logical and evidence based approach Jordan and Austin take and admittedly watch Jordan's IG Lives while I make and eat my own breakkie. I understand the concept of the more advanced one is the more work is required. I believe I also get the concept of RPE. My bench seems to be in such a situation that I think would take advantage of RPE as depending on the day and my life stress and frame of mind, the weight on the bar may or may not move.

    BBM coaching is an option as I was previously coached by one of the very few respected bodybuilding coaches (ceased coaching due to disillusionment with "natural" bodybuilding and the realisation that the best actual natural bodybuilders are very strong, no issue with the coach and I continue to have a good relationship with him) and I would like to continue a formal coaching relationship. Being a bit older (not old I know but older than say 25 or 30), strength and physique are now both equal goals.

    I appreciate you reading through the above and your response.

    Cheers,
    T
    Log

  • #2
    I think moving your upper body lifts to a more intermediate setup may work, sure. As far as how to set it up, that depends. For someone on a SSLP, I'd do this:

    Workout A
    Squat
    Bench x 5 x 5 (sets across, start at -12% from previous 3x5)
    Press x 8 x 3 @ RPE 7- 8
    Chins

    Workout B
    Squat
    Press x 5 x 5 (sets across @ -12% from previous 3 x 5)
    Deadlifts
    Bench x 8 x 3 @ 7-8

    Barbell Medicine "With you from bench to bedside"
    ///Website /// Instagram /// Peri™ Rx /// Whey Rx /// Barbell Medicine Podcast/// Newsletter /// Seminars ///

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Jordan. Much appreciated.

      A couple of clarification questions if I may:
      • on the 5x5 after reducing 12% from current 3x5 weight, is the progression linearly microloaded again, say 1kgs per workout? Reduce bench to 70kgs for 5x5, then next Workout A increase to 71kgs for 5x5, etc and the same for press.
      • on 8x3 do you mean 8 reps x 3 sets correct? The nomenclature can confuse me a bit.

      I hope you and Tom enjoy your time in my home town of Melbourne. Noice!
      (While I freeze in London, UK )
      Log

      Comment


      • #4
        This:
        https://startingstrength.com/article...ng-a-few-ideas

        Keep Getting Stronger!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by teddyd View Post
          Thanks Jordan. Much appreciated.

          A couple of clarification questions if I may:
          • on the 5x5 after reducing 12% from current 3x5 weight, is the progression linearly microloaded again, say 1kgs per workout? Reduce bench to 70kgs for 5x5, then next Workout A increase to 71kgs for 5x5, etc and the same for press.
          • on 8x3 do you mean 8 reps x 3 sets correct? The nomenclature can confuse me a bit.

          I hope you and Tom enjoy your time in my home town of Melbourne. Noice!
          (While I freeze in London, UK )
          You don't necessarily need to microload immediately after the reset, though you might reach a point where that's necessary again.

          And yes, that means 3 sets of 8.
          IG / YT

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you for the clarification Austin.
            I am grateful to both of you for your time and advice.

            Today I continued with 3x5 press and failed on the last rep of the last set, so a 12% deload it is. I put in the 3x8 for the bench press and now I understand why you, Jordan, and Leah (and I presume Alan and the other BBM coaches) constantly prefer to undershoot RPEs than overshoot. My log shows [email protected], then [email protected], and then [email protected]! That was after trying to use the RPE table to try back calculate my e1RM and then calculate to [email protected] The increased weights will come with time.
            Log

            Comment


            • #7
              What do you think this article suggests practically? How do you think it differs from our recommendation? Do you think this article comports with empirical data?
              Barbell Medicine "With you from bench to bedside"
              ///Website /// Instagram /// Peri™ Rx /// Whey Rx /// Barbell Medicine Podcast/// Newsletter /// Seminars ///

              Comment


              • #8
                What do you think this article suggests practically?
                Not to unnecessarily make your training too complex. I would think reading it would be somewhat self explanatory.

                How do you think it differs from our recommendation?
                I don't necessarily, but I posted my reply prior to your recommendations and I felt this article is a helpful one to read if you are asking yourself this question.
                Do you think this article comports with empirical data?
                What empirical data are you referring too? Do you?

                Keep Getting Stronger!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post

                  What do you think this article suggests practically? How do you think it differs from our recommendation? Do you think this article comports with empirical data?
                  Jordan,

                  I had NO idea of the politics involved in this. I thought there was some good ideas to consider in the article, I was not trying to start a debate. Me debating you on this subject would be like me asking you to debate the swiss lever vs the co-axial escapement.
                  I love it that I have multiple resources to gather information from and I appreciate the time and efforts of all involved. If I hit a hit button I'm sorry.

                  Morgan
                  Keep Getting Stronger!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MorganIsm View Post

                    Jordan,

                    I had NO idea of the politics involved in this. I thought there was some good ideas to consider in the article, I was not trying to start a debate. Me debating you on this subject would be like me asking you to debate the swiss lever vs the co-axial escapement.
                    I love it that I have multiple resources to gather information from and I appreciate the time and efforts of all involved. If I hit a hit button I'm sorry.

                    Morgan
                    Right, but you just posted a link without any commentary. What are we supposed to do with the link, Morgan?

                    There are no politics involved here, but you just posted a link and a smiley face without any opinion or suggestion to answer the OP's question. That's not terribly useful you know?
                    Barbell Medicine "With you from bench to bedside"
                    ///Website /// Instagram /// Peri™ Rx /// Whey Rx /// Barbell Medicine Podcast/// Newsletter /// Seminars ///

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MorganIsm View Post
                      What do you think this article suggests practically?
                      Not to unnecessarily make your training too complex. I would think reading it would be somewhat self explanatory.

                      How do you think it differs from our recommendation?
                      I don't necessarily, but I posted my reply prior to your recommendations and I felt this article is a helpful one to read if you are asking yourself this question.
                      Do you think this article comports with empirical data?
                      What empirical data are you referring too? Do you?
                      What is too complex? What is the limit of complexity? What are the purported benefits of "not getting too complex"? The authors do not provide sufficient support for this within the article. Your second sentence "I would think reading it would be somewhat self explanatory" suggests you are either implying I didn't read it or am stupid because I didn't understand it.

                      We have scads of empirical data supporting our methods, which is why we use them so....yes.
                      Barbell Medicine "With you from bench to bedside"
                      ///Website /// Instagram /// Peri™ Rx /// Whey Rx /// Barbell Medicine Podcast/// Newsletter /// Seminars ///

                      Comment

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