Weightlifting Shoes and Heels Rising

[Sero]

So I've had the Powerlift 4 for a while now. When I bought them off the store, they recommended going 1 size up or so from your normal size. So I did, and they're definitely bigger, and are literally slip on and off. That's great and all for convenience sake, but I'm guessing it is what causes my heels to rise a bit. Just a little bit; it's small, and will not go away. That last part is corroborated by all the various forms and cues and tweaks that didn't do anything.

For some perspective that it isn't because of dorsiflexion, I also have footage that I looked at of me squatting barefoot a mile below parallel. There was no heel rising at all. And I also found I wasn't the only one who had a problem with these shoes. Guy probably got oversized ones per direction.

It hasn't been a full year, let alone a year of actual training, and I'm not a strength athlete or whatever. I wouldn't say they've "paid for themselves" so fast. What do I gain from getting a new weightlifting shoe that glues my heel to the ground? If it's 5 lbs for a work set of 10 reps, that probably isn't worth new shoes. On the other hand, every time I look at the back of the foot come off the ground... I think that that's dozens and dozens of lbs stolen from me. All the time spent on this heel thing has been driven me to neurosis; it's time to take the next step with these damn shoes; small difference, no new shoes vs big difference, get new shoes.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

What's your squat look like?

Also, if you squat in other shoes...do your heels stay down?

Finally, how much do you care if you're squatting DOZENS of pounds less, personally ? It doesn't mean your training outcomes will be any different, but I can understand you might have some personal investment in strength outcomes.

[Sero]

What's your squat look like?

I've done it a variety of ways. The latest and "best" way I've been doing shifts from high bar narrow stance to moderate stance with feet rotated around 15 degrees, basically almost forward. I seem to stand pretty asymmetrically and my feet will shift and rotate during a set if I just place them however feels comfortable. My setup includes internally rotating the hips to make feet straight, gluing my feet into the ground, and then screwing the feet outward. It feels like it risks the freedom of the knee joint and might actually put more stress on the quad tendon for me, but it's also the best way for keeping a straight bar path and keeping the heels from rising as much as they normally would.

[quote]
Also, if you squat in other shoes...do your heels stay down?

Yes - in these Puma casuals that I used to squat in. Actually, looking at some of that footage right now... there isn't heel rise but there is a ton of hideous good-morning looking concentrics. Regret looking at that, honestly. Still, my heels nowadays are already coming up on the eccentric so yeah.

Finally, how much do you care if you're squatting DOZENS of pounds less, personally ?

It depends. Is it dozens of pounds on a max, or on a work set of 10 - former means nothing, latter would annoy me.

It doesn't mean your training outcomes will be any different, but I can understand you might have some personal investment in strength outcomes.

I think there's some nuance there. I remember when I had lots of flaring in my feet, basically >45 degrees, and I would sometimes lose balance and fall on my toes. Now, with sets of 245 lbs it was scary enough being outside a rack when that happened, but I would always catch myself. If I kept that technical mistake up while doing 300 lbs or more, my prospects of even getting those sets to 300 lbs or more would have diminished - and that's not only because of adaptative outcomes - and could have find myself floundering around trying to make improvements at rates that were slower than what I actually had. Heels rising without falling forward beats heels rising and falling forward for being able to progress in load and reps. Fixing that mistake was part of the reason why my squat blew up even faster during my 3rd year of training than even my 1st year. It's on a list of things including better programming, getting squat shoes, and successfully being in a surplus. Maybe getting my heels to stop rising will consolidate progression further.

Or maybe it will add an unremarkable 2.5 lbs to each side on a work set of mine for equal reps, and I made a mistake caring at all for so many months. That last statement is tongue-in-cheek because caring so much got me to execute the most proficient squats I've ever done, failing to address the heels notwithstanding.

[Sero]

Matter of fact, descriptions mean nothing. Pictures are a thousand words and videos are worth a thousand pictures.

https://i.imgur.com/6bIC9Zq.mp4

^ The best squats I've ever done for keeping heels down

https://i.imgur.com/8REjeBG.mp4

^ The latest squats. The setup was just bad what with a guy in front of my mirror space which I use as feedback. That's what a set looks like when I fail to setup perfectly and have my feet uneven. It becomes abominable; feet shuffling, hips shooting up, leaning forward. This is what they've almost always looked like. Actually they've been even worse.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Matter of fact, descriptions mean nothing. Pictures are a thousand words and videos are worth a thousand pictures.

Yep, was just looking for video.

Looks like you might benefit from a slightly wider stance and greater toe angle. I'd bet you can keep your heels down just fine independent of footwear.