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Novice at 42 - Switched SSLP to BBMED Beginner program but need to lose weight?

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  • Novice at 42 - Switched SSLP to BBMED Beginner program but need to lose weight?

    Hey All, I'm new to BBMED and generally strength training as well. I've got a few concerns I need help with and would like to make sure I'm doing things correctly

    My info:
    42 Yr old Male
    194 lbs
    28-29% BF according to my digital scale
    40 Inch waist
    Started Strength Training Aug 2019 - SSLP Aug 18- Oct 16th - switched to BBMED beginner program 10/20

    I started out with SSLP mid August and then came across the BBMED site and videos. As general nutrition info was lacking in SS and I was certainly not needing to drink GOMAD I was loured in by Jordan's post "To be a beast" through some strategic ads/posts while viewing Allan thralls technique videos on youtube.

    Since then I've decided to switch to the beginner program and have been running it for ~ 3 weeks. My main concerns are that i need to lose fat according to waist measurement and scale BF%. I also want to gain more muscle but understand I need to drop this fat as first priority.
    Over the past two months I've tracked macros in MFP and started at approx 2500 Cal and followed Jordan's advice on 1 g pp Protein, etc. . My problem is that weight and BF% weren't going down. So I've lowered cals down to ~1750 f at this point for a few weeks, again no changes and the workouts seemed increasingly more difficult since then. So I struggle to understand if I should drop so low as to 1500 Cals to see if that helps, but my fear is that may be too low enough to recover at that point?

    I want to stay engaged with my routine and progress but fear im making a mistake somewhere... I'm following the beginner prescription to the letter and haven't missed any workouts - Also getting between 7-8 hr sleep a night. Looking for advice ...

    Many thanks to BBMED and all the great info you guys provide!

    Ron

  • #2
    I've seen Jordan recommend against dropping below 1800 calories in the past.

    Are you weighing your food? If you are eating out, I would not rely on what the menu/website says is actually in that burrito bowl. In other words, I'd first recommend you evaluate your compliance before dropping any lower.

    You didn't provide what your macro targets are beyond 1g pp protein to start. Jordan has said that he finds it common for his clients to underestimate their fat intake, so possibly start there.

    The foundation for my day nutritionally is a bowl of oatmeal cooked in milk, with a scoop of whey added in, then a bit more milk to cool it off. Quick, yummy (the whey adds flavor and sweetness), filling, and wholesome. I go with 10g oatmeal per 1oz of milk (skim for me) then after cooking, I add another 3oz milk with the whey or it's too thick, and this also cools it down faster for immediate consumption.
    Forum topics and other links I've found useful

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Serack View Post
      I've seen Jordan recommend against dropping below 1800 calories in the past.

      Are you weighing your food? If you are eating out, I would not rely on what the menu/website says is actually in that burrito bowl. In other words, I'd first recommend you evaluate your compliance before dropping any lower.

      You didn't provide what your macro targets are beyond 1g pp protein to start. Jordan has said that he finds it common for his clients to underestimate their fat intake, so possibly start there.

      The foundation for my day nutritionally is a bowl of oatmeal cooked in milk, with a scoop of whey added in, then a bit more milk to cool it off. Quick, yummy (the whey adds flavor and sweetness), filling, and wholesome. I go with 10g oatmeal per 1oz of milk (skim for me) then after cooking, I add another 3oz milk with the whey or it's too thick, and this also cools it down faster for immediate consumption.
      Hey Serack - Yes i'm weighing everything &make most things at home vs. eating out. My macros daily ~190 protein, 45 Fat, & 160 Carbs. I'm literally weighing everything and creating recipes in MFP down to the oil or onions that go into things. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm not eating enough which is why i made the post. I'm feeling quite sore, particularly in the quads, two days after training as well so not sure if that's a symptom of under eating or another condition but might be useful information as well.

      Comment


      • #4
        Huh, sorry, I’m not pro enough to offer more input. Perhaps you could do an actual BBM nutrition consult (or at least ask Jordan in the moderated nutrition forum)

        https://www.barbellmedicine.com/consults-and-contact/
        Forum topics and other links I've found useful

        Comment


        • RMP
          RMP commented
          Editing a comment
          All good. Appreciate it. I've posted on the moderated forum and will see if Jordan or another member can provide some guidance.

      • #5
        How often do you weight yourself and take waist measurements? Do you use the same tape measure and scales each time? Can you share your weight and waist measurements for the past few weeks while you've been on 1750 calories - every reading that you've taken and the date and maybe a few weeks before?

        Is there anything that you eat or drink that doesn't go into MFP? (Tasting while you're preparing? Soda, iced tea, coffees)?

        I wouldn't worry about being sore unless it's stopping you from doing something you want to do (like training, playing sport, working). It's very unlikely that soreness in your quads is anything other than a reaction to the new load that the program is placing on you. It will lessen over time.

        You're not doing anything wrong. As long as you're roughly managing the RPE of your workouts you'll be fine. There is a temptation to try to LP which can cause you to overshoot on the RPEs, especially coming off of SSLP. I find myself doing this when I'm in a deficit and need to be very mindful. 3 weeks in is very early and you're probably still adjusting to the workload.



        Comment


        • #6
          So first for some good news, assuming you are otherwise untrained (prior to starting your LP/Beginner template) you can probably gain some lean mass while losing fat mass. The smaller the deficit the easier this is to do. So basically it's a trade-off between losing fat quicker and making some gains going a tad slower. As somone who prefers to aggressively cut weight myself, I don't always feel more DOMS but I do feel weaker on my days where I eat very little food ~1600cals (cyclical dieting with high days and low days). The lack of food does effect recovery but if you are coming from SSLP you may not have adjusted to the (what I presume to be) increased volume of BBM templates which may take slightly longer due to the caloric restriction. This should sort itself out over time.

          Regarding not losing weight, theoretically weight loss is just an Intake Vs. Expenditure problem however that is deceptively simple. Depending on how long and how aggressively you have been dieting (which at 2500 was probably not very and at 1750 is probably pretty aggressive) you will have some non-negligable metabolic adaptation, mainly in the form of Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (daily life physcial activity). Basically, when you eat less, you unconciously compensate to some degree by moving less (it seems to scale with how long you are in a caloric deficit and how large that deficit is, but I wouldn't expect this to completely stall weightloss alone, just slow it very slightly). Usually this isn't a big deal but since you seem to be on the ball about weighing everything out, training 3-5 days a week (as I don't know exactly what the program you are on calls for), and haven't reported any issues with binging, maybe this can explain a portion of the problem. Also, once you end your diet and spend some time at maintence, this negative adaptation disappears fairly quickly.

          Some random things to think about:

          Do you feel like you have been much less active in your daily life? specifically regarding your time outside of the gym (or if you actually have lowered your planned cardio?)
          Have you started taking creatine? This leads to increased muscular water retention (which is a good thing) and can therefore mask weightloss.
          Have you been taking measurements at the same time of day using the same techniques and the same equiptment?
          Has your bowel movement timing changed? For example, if you started weighing yourself after voiding and now are weighing pre-void you can mask some weightloss over the short-term.
          Do you feel like you are losing fat mass? This one is hard one to explain but I have noticed that when I lose weight there will be two week spans where my weight remains fairly stable then one day I "magically" lose 2lbs.
          Are you using the beginner template page that tracks macros and weight? You might see a decrease in your weekly average but not as much day to day.

          At 1750 calories you are probably eating at or below basal metabolic rate and therefore will lose fat mass and deplete glycogen as these are the body's energy stores. With very aggressive weightloss (which this would definately be), comes the possiblity of retaining a non-negligable amount of bodywater that may hide some of this loss, but you are still moving towards your goal. Personally, I would aim closer to 2000-2100 calories a day on average as it should be about a pound or two a week and will help out with recovery. You can also add in some walks just to burn a few more calories a day (or trade them in for a little more food). If you choose to continue eating ~1750cals a day, when you start to feel really bad, just take 2-3 days at ~300 calories below "maintenance" with most of the additional calories being carbs. This may help increase leptin and will replenish glycogen stores therefore making you feel more satieted and less drained. It will help you feel better and let you rest some psychologically as eating at basal metabolic rate is pretty painful after a while.

          TLDR
          Dieting sucks, if you are tracking everything as closely as you can and not losing weight, there may be some weird confounding variables. If you go into a ~750cal deficit you should see week to week weightloss. If you don't, just trust the process as sometimes your body does funky stuff. As long as you are in a caloric deficit you will be burning stored energy and therefore losing fat mass, even if the scale doesn't say it.

          P.S.
          I'm not a doctor and this isn't medical advice. I saw your post in nutrition and I would take Jordan's word over mine anyday as well... he IS a Doctor and has a decade or so of experience. I'm just some random guy who spends too much time listening to M.D.s and PHDs on the internet!

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by JoshA View Post
            So first for some good news, assuming you are otherwise untrained (prior to starting your LP/Beginner template) you can probably gain some lean mass while losing fat mass. The smaller the deficit the easier this is to do. So basically it's a trade-off between losing fat quicker and making some gains going a tad slower. As somone who prefers to aggressively cut weight myself, I don't always feel more DOMS but I do feel weaker on my days where I eat very little food ~1600cals (cyclical dieting with high days and low days). The lack of food does effect recovery but if you are coming from SSLP you may not have adjusted to the (what I presume to be) increased volume of BBM templates which may take slightly longer due to the caloric restriction. This should sort itself out over time.

            Regarding not losing weight, theoretically weight loss is just an Intake Vs. Expenditure problem however that is deceptively simple. Depending on how long and how aggressively you have been dieting (which at 2500 was probably not very and at 1750 is probably pretty aggressive) you will have some non-negligable metabolic adaptation, mainly in the form of Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (daily life physcial activity). Basically, when you eat less, you unconciously compensate to some degree by moving less (it seems to scale with how long you are in a caloric deficit and how large that deficit is, but I wouldn't expect this to completely stall weightloss alone, just slow it very slightly). Usually this isn't a big deal but since you seem to be on the ball about weighing everything out, training 3-5 days a week (as I don't know exactly what the program you are on calls for), and haven't reported any issues with binging, maybe this can explain a portion of the problem. Also, once you end your diet and spend some time at maintence, this negative adaptation disappears fairly quickly.

            Some random things to think about:

            Do you feel like you have been much less active in your daily life? specifically regarding your time outside of the gym (or if you actually have lowered your planned cardio?)
            Have you started taking creatine? This leads to increased muscular water retention (which is a good thing) and can therefore mask weightloss.
            Have you been taking measurements at the same time of day using the same techniques and the same equiptment?
            Has your bowel movement timing changed? For example, if you started weighing yourself after voiding and now are weighing pre-void you can mask some weightloss over the short-term.
            Do you feel like you are losing fat mass? This one is hard one to explain but I have noticed that when I lose weight there will be two week spans where my weight remains fairly stable then one day I "magically" lose 2lbs.
            Are you using the beginner template page that tracks macros and weight? You might see a decrease in your weekly average but not as much day to day.

            At 1750 calories you are probably eating at or below basal metabolic rate and therefore will lose fat mass and deplete glycogen as these are the body's energy stores. With very aggressive weightloss (which this would definately be), comes the possiblity of retaining a non-negligable amount of bodywater that may hide some of this loss, but you are still moving towards your goal. Personally, I would aim closer to 2000-2100 calories a day on average as it should be about a pound or two a week and will help out with recovery. You can also add in some walks just to burn a few more calories a day (or trade them in for a little more food). If you choose to continue eating ~1750cals a day, when you start to feel really bad, just take 2-3 days at ~300 calories below "maintenance" with most of the additional calories being carbs. This may help increase leptin and will replenish glycogen stores therefore making you feel more satieted and less drained. It will help you feel better and let you rest some psychologically as eating at basal metabolic rate is pretty painful after a while.

            TLDR
            Dieting sucks, if you are tracking everything as closely as you can and not losing weight, there may be some weird confounding variables. If you go into a ~750cal deficit you should see week to week weightloss. If you don't, just trust the process as sometimes your body does funky stuff. As long as you are in a caloric deficit you will be burning stored energy and therefore losing fat mass, even if the scale doesn't say it.

            P.S.
            I'm not a doctor and this isn't medical advice. I saw your post in nutrition and I would take Jordan's word over mine anyday as well... he IS a Doctor and has a decade or so of experience. I'm just some random guy who spends too much time listening to M.D.s and PHDs on the internet!

            Hey Josh - Seriously thanks for all the information ! Jordan did get back to me on the moderated post with some things to try as well which I'll take into account. mainly switching my protein and carb ratio + additional walking without lowering calories any further at the moment.

            To answer some of your questions/considerations:

            I have started creatine.
            Usually weight/measure same time (mornings).
            I feel like some fat mass is reducing but not my waist measurement

            I think you hit on a good point... The SSLP basically is lower volume and contains zero conditioning work. So since im now three weeks into the beginner template and the volume is quite a bit higher ( 4's 8's 10 rep ranges cycled on most exercises) this is essentially kicking my A$$ and likely the reason I feel more sore than when doing SSLP... That + the addition of the cardio and GPP im hoping will start taking some fat down Jordan recommended also to add 20-30 mins per day in addition of walking because i work at a desk mostly as a sedentary M-F



            Comment


            • JoshA
              JoshA commented
              Editing a comment
              You're welcome! I'm just happy to be useful lol
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