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  • Knee pain from vibration

    Is there any way to train to reduce knee aches from vibrations/shocks?

    BBM's focus is on training our body to take large loads through the body adapting to progressive overload. This makes sense when we view the body as a self-correcting system, not a mechanical component that wears out progressively. Yet it seems that knees have aches and pains that are perilous to ignore. When I use the BPS thought process for knee pain, it was not something I could just work around.

    Why this question? My chosen winter sport is alpine snowboarding. Minimal jumping. If X-Games snowboarding is a dirt bike, this is a Moto GP bike that only stays on smooth pavement. Here's a picture of me mid-turn, just for kicks: http://i63.tinypic.com/j91yc6.jpg

    Through 3 years of strength training I can be much more dynamic and handle much more loading in turns and ride longer, but my knees still hurt as much or more than they did before starting to train. I'm stronger at 43 than I've ever been in my life, yet my 2019 snowboarding season has been severely compromised by various knee pains that persist for days or weeks after any given day of riding. Sport-specific training would be awesome, but I only have ~14 weeks per year that I can snowboard, so I want to arrive into snow season as prepared as possible through training the other 38 weeks of the year.

    Can we improve the knees' reaction to vibration/shock loading through progressive overload? I see three options, or maybe a mix of all three:
    1. Titrate up running volume over time, making the knees grow accustomed to shock loading
    2. Add in more unilateral leg knee exercises, like the knee rehab template
    3. Treat my knees like a mechanical hinge with a finite wear/fatigue life due to cartilage degradation with use, plan for future knee replacement (I don't like this option!)

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Dang dude that's a sick picture of you, im jealous because I cant do anything that comes close to snow boarding because I never have xD.
    Im not a therapist but from what I gathered with my limited knowledge, it seems like either the knee rehab template can help and or getting a consult and a plan from the Rehab guys could be a good option.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Corey,

      Can we improve the knees' reaction to vibration/shock loading through progressive overload?

      I would say we can improve our capacity to tolerate loads with progressive overload. But in many sports/activities, those loads far exceed what resistance training can do. Sometimes we need tasks such as plyometrics to closing match the sport. If our capacity exceeds the demand, its likely we'll be okay. If the demand exceeds our capacity we may get soreness, pain or worse an injury (see Victor Olidipo's most recent quad rupture).

      1. Titrate up running volume over time, making the knees grow accustomed to shock loading

      This adds some ground reaction forces compatible with your chosen task. Plyometrics would do the same. The question you may need to ask is how do you manipulate volume and intensity? And how does your body respond?

      2. Add in more unilateral leg knee exercises, like the knee rehab template

      Worth a shot

      3. Treat my knees like a mechanical hinge with a finite wear/fatigue life due to cartilage degradation with use, plan for future knee replacement (I don't like this option!)

      Outside of predisposing factors such as previous knee surgeries, I don't see any reason to think in this manner.


      The things that get my attention are:

      Sport/activity with high loads/ground reaction forces
      Age

      Do you have the same knee aches and pains in the off-season?
      Are you doing this kind of boarding every time? Can you mix in less intense boarding?
      Are you allowing enough recovery during the 14 weeks of boarding?
      Your age may demand you reduce volume/intensity/frequency of loading and increase duration of recovery

      Like it or not, some sports make us sore no matter what, no matter how well trained we may be. I would argue any sport that pushes one's physical capacity has.a high probability to make us hurt.

      Look forward to your response

      Comment


      • #4
        Dr. Scott Dye wrote a long time ago about the "envelope of function." I'd encourage you to take a look. I use this with athletes to help them understand work/recovery, capacity/demand concepts

        https://journals.lww.com/clinorthop/...ain__A.16.aspx

        Comment


        • #5
          Dhruv, thanks for the kind words! It's been a passion of mine for the past 30+ years. Being utterly exhausted in the mountains led me to strength training, so it's fun and led me to a better life.

          Matthew, thank you as well! That's a refreshing viewpoint. As you could tell by my 3rd question I was nervous I hadn't made my last turns.

          I hadn't considered plyometrics. Too much reading of Rip's articles has tainted me against such options, but it makes sense that impacts in plyometrics will generate much higher joint forces than a squat, for example.

          I have minimal knee pain in other life. Only if I run a large amount more than usual or have an obvious trauma. Squatting is fine. Frankly, I can't reproduce the pain on command, it seems to take an odd sequence of events that happens rarely. Example; tonight I finished some rows and hung the bar up on the rack hooks. As I stepped and rotated away from the bar to log the set, I had a subtle twinge of discomfort in one knee. I went back to try to repeat it out of curiosity, but couldn't.

          I could mix in more conventional boarding, but I'd rather not. The Moto GP bike is more fun than the moped. That said, I am going to back down the aggression for the near future out of self-preservation. In hindsight, I did ramp up the intensity quite quickly this season as my base strength level permitted it. Your wise questions likely led us to the underlying cause...

          I do this recreationally, one or two days on weekends. Sometimes every other weekend. Previous to this year, I'd have slight discomfort in my knees the next day, but it faded quickly. This year is a different level.

          Dr. Dye's article is above my comprehension level. I'll have to try it again, looking up every third word. Thanks for sharing it.

          Any thoughts for the short term? I'm going on a trip to Montana in 2 weeks, so I'd like to make the most progress I can in that time. Ramp up some jump training in that time? Or try to rest? I fear 2 weeks isn't long enough to have a meaningful change.

          Either way, I'm going to turn down the intensity for this trip.

          Thanks!

          Comment


          • #6
            My thoughts:

            You're right. Nothing special will occur over two weeks.

            The highest loads you'll be confronted with are snowboarding during your trip. I view this as the "event" or "meet."

            Two weeks prior to an event some will reduce volume and keep up with intensity. One week out the volume continues to drop with touches of intensity. The goal being to ensure full recovery, feeling fresh and potentially a "super compensation." I don't see any reason to approach the trip any differently. Go in feeling fresh and ready to go. I wouldn't get too cute/experimental this close to a trip like that. Do what feels good and right.

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