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Let's talk about Israetel rows for physique athletes

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  • Let's talk about Israetel rows for physique athletes

    I'm calling them Israetel rows because I have never seen anyone else Row like this:

    ​​​​​​https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkEo5Thds10

    They're pulls from the floor with a back angle at circa 45 degrees. They're very different from the BBM/SS row because of this, but they distinguish themselves from the general issue bodybuilding.com row because the weight rests on the floor between reps, allowing the trainee to set their lower back and valsalva effectively.

    Dr. Mike touches the bar to his stomach a couple of inches above his knees, which is a shorter ROM than the SS/BBM row.

    Since the hardest point of the SS/BBM row is the last couple inches before the bar touches the chest, they feel kinda wack for lots of trainees. If I could get 5 reps where the bar actually touched my stomach doing SS rows and I missed on the sixth rep, then I could probably get five more reps where the bar was within an inch and a half of touching the chest. Success in SS/BBM rows done with strict form seems to primarily depend on the trainees ability to accelerate the bar during the first half of the ROM, giving it sufficient momentum to brush the stomach during the last couple inches of the range of motion, where it can't really be "muscled up" because anatomy dictates that weaker muscle groups must take over during the last few inches.

    The Rip/BBM reply to this seems to be "well yeah, youre kinda forced to cheat with the hips at least a little bit, but this reality doesn't detract from the fact that Rows done this way have proven themselves to be effective DL assistance exercises and do seem to make meaningful contributions to lat hypertrophy as well". But doing an arbitrary percentage of the work with my hips is just anathema to me

    Israetel's form solves some of the problems with quantifying rows by marrying the rest on the floor with the 45 degree back angle, which has long been thought to be optimal for involving the largest possible amount of muscle mass.

    When I tried to do them earlier, all I got was bloody knees. It's really hard to get in the position Dr. Mike is in in this video - in fact, its probably impossible for some anthropometries

    Do any of you more physique-minded BBM fans do your rows this way?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Evanther View Post
    its probably impossible for some anthropometries
    Yes. His form look very "personalized", whatever works for him and not a general form that can work for everyone like Rip / BBM teaches. I have long legs and my back is almost horizontal when I deadlift, so it's impossible for me to even attempt a row like that.

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    • #3
      They’re just strict pendlay rows (barbell rows). If you want to do them, just roll the barbell away from you a little bit

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      • #4
        Originally posted by tfranc View Post
        They’re just strict pendlay rows (barbell rows). If you want to do them, just roll the barbell away from you a little bit
        You seem to think that "Pendlay row" does not connote anything more specific than any a row from the floor, but this is wrong. It is not called a pendlay row unless the back is parallel to the floor.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Evanther View Post

          You seem to think that "Pendlay row" does not connote anything more specific than any a row from the floor, but this is wrong. It is not called a pendlay row unless the back is parallel to the floor.
          Super curious as to how you know this to be a fact.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Evanther View Post

            You seem to think that "Pendlay row" does not connote anything more specific than any a row from the floor, but this is wrong. It is not called a pendlay row unless the back is parallel to the floor.
            Nah bruh. Pendlay row is just a barbell row. You can bring the bar to different points on your torso, you can do them strict, you can do them with english, you can do them on a bed, you can do them with Fred, you just can’t do them when you’re dead.

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            • #7
              I definitely wouldn't like dragging the bar around my knee like that. I'll stay more horizontal.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Leah Lutz View Post

                Super curious as to how you know this to be a fact.
                https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=ZlRrIsoDpKg

                Hope this video of Pendlay himself explaining it sates your curiosity. but then again, i mean, there's no reason he should be familiar with the characteristics of exercises that are named after him, right? you picked a weird thing to challenge me on, leah

                relatedly, ya'll don't seem to be passing up too many opportunities to be smug these days. good grief.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Evanther View Post

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=ZlRrIsoDpKg

                  Hope this video of Pendlay himself explaining it sates your curiosity. but then again, i mean, there's no reason he should be familiar with the characteristics of exercises that are named after him, right? you picked a weird thing to challenge me on, leah

                  relatedly, ya'll don't seem to be passing up too many opportunities to be smug these days. good grief.
                  Sorry that offended you. I didn't intend it to. Your response to Tim came off as pretty authoritarian and there are all kinds of interpretations of this row. That's what I was responding to-your fairly condescending response to TIm. Since I know the guy and like him, I was probably a bit short. I'll aim to not do that!
                  Last edited by Leah Lutz; 08-02-2018, 06:47 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Stop worrying about stuff that doesn't matter. Just pick a style that you can repeat with good form and progress with. ??? Profit.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Leah Lutz View Post

                      Sorry that offended you. I didn't intend it to. Your response to Tim came off as pretty authoritarian and there are all kinds of interpretations of this row. That's what I was responding to-your fairly condescending response to TIm. Since I know the guy and like him, I was probably a bit short. I'll aim to not do that!
                      well you're right that I was much less polite to you both (esp tfranc) than I ought have been. I'm sorry.

                      Sounds like a good idea, Mitch.

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                      • #12
                        One thing to keep in mind is that when BBM programs the Pendlay Row it is specific to being a deadlift or bench supplemental movement. I would not swap those slots. However, there are 2 upper back GPP slots each week on most of their programs. I have a whole slew of different row variations I cycle in these slots over time. I typically spend about a month with a single variation before swapping it. There are n number of ways you can do rows. GPP days are great for more physique focused movements, or just trying new things to break monotony/boredom.

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