Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Liss and hiit 7 week hypertrophy

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • philibusters
    replied
    Originally posted by rtbee View Post
    Howdy, all. Question about LISS, specifically related to Heart Rate targets.

    I’m a former endurance athlete (marathoner) who was a heart-rate training nerd in my former life, though I have seen the barbell light, and have been in the intermediate phase of lifting for about a year following BBM programming (34 M, BW 182, 385/320/455).

    Each week I’ve been programming one HIIT workout (20s “sprint” [on air bike or track] @ 100% effort/RPE 10) and one LISS workout for 25min (sled pull or air bike) @ 65-70% of my Max Heart Rate.

    My question is: 65-70% of my HRM for LISS feels (way) too easy. If LISS should be “around 6 or 7 RPE” which is “hard, but doable” should I increase my target HR so that it is “hard” in reality, or stick to the prescribed range?


    For additional info, my resting heart rate is 46, and my most recent max heart rate is 181, giving me a heart rate reserve (HRR) of 135 beats. Should I be using HRR percentage to set my target LISS HR instead of %HRM?

    Also, I’m open to being rebuked and told I’m measuring the wrong datapoint, that I’m not at cardiovascular risk, and I should stay focused on getting stronger

    Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
    If you are a runner, your easy running pace should be appropriate for LISS. I tend to run my easy running pace in the high 130's. If somebody is out of shape aerobically that may be too tough a workout for them, but given you training in aerobic workout, going to around 75% of your heartrate should tired you out too much.

    Leave a comment:


  • rtbee
    replied
    Howdy, all. Question about LISS, specifically related to Heart Rate targets.

    I’m a former endurance athlete (marathoner) who was a heart-rate training nerd in my former life, though I have seen the barbell light, and have been in the intermediate phase of lifting for about a year following BBM programming (34 M, BW 182, 385/320/455).

    Each week I’ve been programming one HIIT workout (20s “sprint” [on air bike or track] @ 100% effort/RPE 10) and one LISS workout for 25min (sled pull or air bike) @ 65-70% of my Max Heart Rate.

    My question is: 65-70% of my HRM for LISS feels (way) too easy. If LISS should be “around 6 or 7 RPE” which is “hard, but doable” should I increase my target HR so that it is “hard” in reality, or stick to the prescribed range?


    For additional info, my resting heart rate is 46, and my most recent max heart rate is 181, giving me a heart rate reserve (HRR) of 135 beats. Should I be using HRR percentage to set my target LISS HR instead of %HRM?

    Also, I’m open to being rebuked and told I’m measuring the wrong datapoint, that I’m not at cardiovascular risk, and I should stay focused on getting stronger

    Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

    Leave a comment:


  • cmoney
    replied
    Originally posted by teddyd View Post
    For LISS I do an incline walk at a level 5.5 incline and 5.5kms per hour. I also do elliptical. So it is fine. The aim is to keep LISS at around 65% to 70% max heart rate, i.e. RPE @6
    For HIIT I do rower, skill mill sprints, or skill mill low push (like a prowler push). This is flat out for 20s (RPE @9 to @10) and rest light movement for 140s (RPE @walk in the park).

    The purpose for conditioning in BBM templates is to be able to recover from each working set quicker. HIIT has its purpose here as it is mimicking the set, 20s under load and 140s rest. Obviously this being a form of cardio means that the working and rest intervals are shorter than actual barbell sets.

    If you are unconditioned start with LISS twice a week. If you have done conditioning before and are OK, do both, one LISS and one HIIT. If you are a marathon runner in a past life and are conditioned by simply looking at a pair of runners or a treadmill, don't do either LISS or HIIT. As with all things, there is a spectrum.

    Doing LISS and HIIT allows me to recover between working sets in 3 minutes for competition lifts and supplemental lifts 1, and keep supplemental lifts 2 at about 2 minutes rest. I take no rest between warmups until about RPE @7 where I will take 2 to 3 minutes and off into working sets. So there is a benefit.
    I fail to see why HIIT would help inter-set recovery more than simply modifying your rest periods in training. I too used to be one of those over-rest donkeys with 3-exercise sessions taking 2 hours. To remedy that I simply held myself accountable, and limited rests to 3 mins for big lower body lists, 2.5 mins for big upper body lifts, and 2 mins for the high rep supplemental stuff. After a couple of weeks, I've adapted pretty well.

    I'm not anti-HIIT, but I'm anti-throwing it in as a general recommendation for all lifters on specific templates. I side more with Nuckols on this. I'd exhaust LISS (up to 3 40min sessions per week) gains before toying with HIIT. I'm already lifting 4 days a week, with short rests... that's HIIT!

    Obviously time is also a factor so if you actually don't mind doing HIIT and comply with it, and you don't have the extra 20 minutes to burn.. sure, knock yourself out. I just don't want trainees feeling any great shame over not "manning up" to do 8 high intensity intervals every weekend.

    Leave a comment:


  • teddyd
    commented on 's reply
    That is fine. Just work from your starting point and your conditioning will improve.

  • Sandokan13
    replied
    teddyd Mine is atrocious. I put it on 5.5 incline, my HR went to 136 from 120 with no incline then I set it at 2 and stayed at 131 eventually went down to 126 for the last 20 minutes

    Leave a comment:


  • teddyd
    replied
    Originally posted by Sandokan13 View Post
    I really want to thank you teddy, you give amazing answers. On the treadmill you said 5.5 kms... does this mean 5.5 on the speed or the machine indicates how fast you are going. I've been doing no incline at speed 3.0 and I think at 4.0 I would have to throttle.
    Thanks Sandokan13 ! I hope they are helpful...

    Sorry, for clarity it is 5.5 kms per hour ("kph") speed setting; so how fast the belt is travelling and what I am actually walking at. It is a pretty good walking clip for me. I am just giving you my experience as an example. I focus less on the speed and more on my heart rate aiming for between 115bpm and 125bpm as measured on my Apple Watch (supposedly the most accurate of the wrist wearables and is pretty bang on with the heart rate grip thingies on the treadmill machine). sometimes I speed up to 6kph, sometimes down to 5kph, and this will be during a single GPP session to keep heart rate on target. It is like RPE so modulate accordingly. I also modulate the incline accordingly.

    Your machine may be miles per hour rather than kilometres. Your conditioning may be different to mine. You may need to do 3.0 whatever units per hour and build your speed up over the next few months as your conditioning improves. That is fine and is your training RPE @6 to RPE @7. Some other people on these forums may be doing the same exercise at the same incline and moving at 7kph as their conditioning is far superior to mine (I know of a couple who would far surpass the speed and incline I use to keep their heart rate at around 120bpm as their conditioning is quite high).

    Leave a comment:


  • Sandokan13
    replied
    I really want to thank you teddy, you give amazing answers. On the treadmill you said 5.5 kms... does this mean 5.5 on the speed or the machine indicates how fast you are going. I've been doing no incline at speed 3.0 and I think at 4.0 I would have to throttle.

    Leave a comment:


  • teddyd
    replied
    For LISS I do an incline walk at a level 5.5 incline and 5.5kms per hour. I also do elliptical. So it is fine. The aim is to keep LISS at around 65% to 70% max heart rate, i.e. RPE @6
    For HIIT I do rower, skill mill sprints, or skill mill low push (like a prowler push). This is flat out for 20s (RPE @9 to @10) and rest light movement for 140s (RPE @walk in the park).

    The purpose for conditioning in BBM templates is to be able to recover from each working set quicker. HIIT has its purpose here as it is mimicking the set, 20s under load and 140s rest. Obviously this being a form of cardio means that the working and rest intervals are shorter than actual barbell sets.

    If you are unconditioned start with LISS twice a week. If you have done conditioning before and are OK, do both, one LISS and one HIIT. If you are a marathon runner in a past life and are conditioned by simply looking at a pair of runners or a treadmill, don't do either LISS or HIIT. As with all things, there is a spectrum.

    Doing LISS and HIIT allows me to recover between working sets in 3 minutes for competition lifts and supplemental lifts 1, and keep supplemental lifts 2 at about 2 minutes rest. I take no rest between warmups until about RPE @7 where I will take 2 to 3 minutes and off into working sets. So there is a benefit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sandokan13
    replied
    Wouldnt the high incline be much harder not making it liss anymore. I have never done any type of cardio so lifting with this program gets me more tired than anything else I think that's why hiit is included to break through that fatigue you get from training and be more ready for the upcoming weeks with higher volume. Probably wrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • cmoney
    replied
    You can use the bikes and the rowers for both. You can use a treadmill for LISS, specifically high incline walking.

    If you haven't done HIIT before I'd consider just doing LISS on both days. I personally don't agree with BBM on their HIIT programming. I think LISS is more beneficial to most recreation lifters and also has higher compliance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sandokan13
    started a topic Liss and hiit 7 week hypertrophy

    Liss and hiit 7 week hypertrophy

    I go to L.A. fitness, they have 2 types of bikes, treadmills other machines for cardio and a rower. What should I use for both of these cardio types or what would be better choices and why?
Working...
X