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Serack's Myorep writeup

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  • Serack
    replied
    I edited in some formatting and added a new section at the bottom.

    Leave a comment:


  • ropable
    replied
    A good summary, thanks for writing it up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Serack
    replied
    Yah for barbell work, changing weights can really get in the way of drop sets, but if you can peal em off the dumbbell rack as you go through a drop set, that’s another valuable way to quickly accumulate reps “in proximity to failure.”

    Also, for replacing the last set with Myoreps, usually, the last BBM exercise is a movement pattern that is already relatively warm from one of the previous exercises, so the coaches recommend just launching into the myorep activation set without a separate warmup.

    Andy actually called out Myoreps as a valuable in his Tricep guide a few months ago, although he specifically mentioned Borge Fagerli’s merhod (pretty sure he invented them) which BBM deviates from a little

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  • Millzners
    replied
    Thank you for you thoughtful response. When pressed for time I will try converting the last lift myoreps as opposed to missing sets. To your point Andy Baker has said he prefers drop sets to myoreps but my guess is most people can do more myoreps in the same span of time than drop sets due to changing the weights.

    Leave a comment:


  • Serack
    replied
    Originally posted by Millzners View Post
    The only question for me is the programming. I’ve run the power building II template and there are no myo reps after the pivot week but there are AMRAP sets with drop sets. I wonder under what context myo reps may be inappropriate and if they are less compatible with a strength focused training block.
    If you break a programming weekly microcycle into "slots" where you program a particular movement's reps and sets, each exercise you put in a slot is chosen to provide particular desired training stimuli. Example desired stimuli goals would be
    1. Specificity towards the competition lifts at near competition loads to train movement patterns at these high loads.
    2. Improving technique in identified/anticipated weak areas
    3. Overall volume for Hypertrophy
    4. Volume at lower intensities for hypertrophy but at lower recovery cost
    5. Increased training sensitivity through relative novelty instead of hyper specificity.
    To my knowledge, every week of BBM powerlifting focused programming deliberately includes a slot for each competition lift at loads greater than 70% of 1RM, with the intent of hitting #1 above. This also counts as volume towards goal #3.

    The slots where supplemental lifts are programmed are generally more focused on goals 2-5 to varying degrees, with some heavier, more specific exercise selections overlapping with #1.

    So to answer your question, Myoreps primarily meet stimulus goal #3 and #4, with some choices contributing to #5. It would be inappropriate to program them into a slot that should be meeting the #1 goal, and in many cases there are slots that should prioritize goal #2 such that Myoreps are inappropriate.

    The coaches have specifically said that in most cases, if you are pressed for time, the 3rd slot in a day's exercises can be replaced with a myorep set. It's typically a supplemental lift with lower specificity anyways. This isn't to say that your results will be just as good as if you did the program as written.

    It's my understanding that given infinite training time, there are rest schemes that will result in better gainzZz. It's a trade-off.
    Last edited by Serack; 08-22-2019, 02:03 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Millzners
    replied
    The only question for me is the programming. I’ve run the power building II template and there are no myo reps after the pivot week but there are AMRAP sets with drop sets. I wonder under what context myo reps may be inappropriate and if they are less compatible with a strength focused training block.

    Leave a comment:


  • gmorf33
    replied
    Hey nice! I think this summarizes and expands on the concept pretty well. It also answers one of the questions i had with regard to the follow up sets. I wasn't sure if those were supposed to also be at RPE 8 or go all out. Looks like by this, you don't limit yourself to RPE 8 on those and just try to get the same # of reps each set until you can't (a true RPE 10 by the last set).

    Leave a comment:


  • Serack
    started a topic Serack's Myorep writeup

    Serack's Myorep writeup

    How

    I've seen lots of input on MyoReps as well as lots of questions on them so I thought I'd collect everything together for one resource that I'll link in my resources topic.

    The instructions, pulled from a post Austin made last year. Then a bunch of theory.

    Guys, I am really not sure how the instructions given in the template are unclear. I've pasted them here with a bit more editing and spacing for ease of reading:

    How to do myoreps:
    The first set is called the "activation set"- which is just working up to the prescribed rep range @ RPE 8.
    10-12 reps is likely 62-68% of 1RM
    12-15 is likely 58-62%, and all bets are off for 14-16 reps (and the exercises are weird).

    After doing this activation set, rack the bar for 5 deep breaths (in and out).

    Then do a set of 3-5 reps, aiming for 5 reps.

    Re-rack the weight, rest for 5 breaths, then repeat a set of the same number of reps you just did (whether 3, 4, or 5 reps).

    Repeat this process (set of 3-5, rack, 5 breaths) until the FIRST TIME you hit 1 rep less than the first set of 3-5.

    In other words, if you hit 4 reps on the first set and you hit 3 on the 2nd set, you're done.
    If you hit 4-4-3, you're done after the set of 3.
    If you hit 3-3-3-2, you're done after the double.

    Why

    So why Myoreps?

    Generally if you have all day the best gainzZz come from sets taken near (but rarely to) failure with at least 3 minutes of rest between them (some will argue for 10 minutes of rest). In reality, few of us wish to spend 2-4+ hours a day in the gym, so Myoreps are a strategy to take advantage of a few decently understood principles of stimulating hypertrophy to cram a good amount of hypertrophy training stimulus (volume) into a short period of time. Notice, I said hypertrophy. Strength is specific, and Myoreps are pretty darn unspecific towards your 1RM, but muscle cross sectional area is one of the foundational characteristics that determine the potential for how high your 1RM can be. So BBM programs Myoreps as a time efficient way to stimulate hypertrophy.

    So what are these principles you ask? Austin and Jordan frequently discuss in their podcasts (and Chris Beardsley beats it to death in a lot of his material) that for hypertrophy stimulus, what matters is how many muscle fibers your brain/nervous system activated in a particular rep. Lots of research has shown that whether you do a 5RM, or a 30RM, the last 5 reps activate pretty much ALL of your muscle fibers equally, AND that either extreme of rep schemes have nearly equivalent hypertrophy outcomes as long as they are taken to or near failure. Of course taking a set to failure has higher recovery costs, especially at lower rep ranges, and can limit the amount of volume you can recover from. And lots of volume takes TIME, so strategies like Myoreps have been developed

    By definition an @ RPE 8 set is within 2 reps of failure and the last 3 reps are prime hypertrophy stimulus. In a Myorep, since you don't allow yourself to fully recover between sub-sets, each sub-set will be RPE 8 or higher, and thus each sub-set will have 3-5 reps of prime hypertrophy stimulus.

    In the following hypothetical comparison between a MyoRep set and 2 5RMs with 10 minutes of rest between them, the Myorep set has more than twice the hypertrophy stimulating volume in less than half the time.
    Total
    Myoreps Reps [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] 39
    Hypertrophy Reps 3 3 3 4 5 4 22
    Set time +Rest time 25s+20s 10s+20s 10s+20s 10s+20s 13S+20s 12s+20 3m20s
    5RM Reps 5 5 10
    Hypertrophy Reps 5 5 10
    Set time +Rest time 1m+10m 1m 12m

    When

    Added from a reply below

    under what context [would] myo reps may be inappropriate
    If you break a programming weekly microcycle into "slots" where you program a particular movement's reps and sets, each exercise you put in a slot is chosen to provide particular desired training stimuli. Example desired stimuli goals would be
    1. Specificity towards the competition lifts at near competition loads to train movement patterns at these high loads.
    2. Improving technique in identified/anticipated weak areas
    3. Overall volume for Hypertrophy
    4. Volume at lower intensities for hypertrophy but at lower recovery cost
    5. Increased training sensitivity through relative novelty instead of hyper specificity.
    To my knowledge, every week of BBM powerlifting focused programming deliberately includes a slot for each competition lift at loads greater than 70% of 1RM, with the intent of hitting #1 above. This also counts as volume towards goal #3.

    The slots where supplemental lifts are programmed are generally more focused on goals 2-5 to varying degrees, with some heavier, more specific exercise selections overlapping with #1.

    So to answer your question, Myoreps primarily meet stimulus goal #3 and #4, with some choices contributing to #5. It would be inappropriate to program them into a slot that should be meeting the #1 goal, and in many cases there are slots that should prioritize goal #2 such that Myoreps are inappropriate.

    The coaches have specifically said that in most cases, if you are pressed for time, the 3rd slot in a day's exercises can be replaced with a myorep set. It's typically a supplemental lift with lower specificity anyways. This isn't to say that your results will be just as good as if you did the program as written.

    It's my understanding that given infinite training time, there are rest schemes that will result in better gainzZz. It's a trade-off.
    Central vs Local Fatigue
    9/22/2020 edit to add:

    BLUF: There is some evidence that leads to the conclusion that using short rest periods as a hack to increase hypertrophy stimulus of individual reps is more effective for smaller muscle groups/unilateral/isolation work than for larger compound movements.

    Pretty much everything above I can directly attribute to principles I've seen Jordan and Austin discuss. I've revisited this stuff recently, and it's possible they have discussed some of the principles I'm going to touch in this section, but I can't remember. I do remember material from Beardsley covering it in detail, but the recent article that has me wanting to update this post is by Eric Helms over on 3d Muscle Journey.

    Eric Helms' article goes over a lot of the principles I discussed in the "why" section above from a historical angle, and in more detail with respect to lots of rest vs little rest, then gets into this principle, and I'll quote some of that.

    He also emphasizes that this is a hypothesis put together to explain the current evidence we have. The understanding of how this works may improve as more evidence is gained.

    Theoretically, a higher load set with fewer reps results in immediate recruitment of most muscle fibres, while a low-load set with many reps eventually recruits most fibres as local fatigue forces more and more fibres to “pick up the slack” as the set continues, ultimately getting you to the same stimulus. When local fatigue occurs, your nervous system is sending the signal to your muscles to contract and to keep performing reps, despite local fatigue preventing it from occurring. Locally, your muscles have given all they’ve got (Nice job muscles!).

    However, not all fatigue is local. Central fatigue is characterized by a reduction in the actual neuromuscular signal to contract, which is inherently counterproductive for hypertrophy.[/snip stuff about lactate]
    This is something Chris Beardsley pounds on in his material, and it means that in a central fatigued state, those grinding reps are performed with the nerves inhibited from firing at the level necessary to recruit all the muscle fibers needed to get that prime hypertrophy stimulus.

    Importantly, it’s not just your rest period that impacts cardiometabolic fatigue, another component is the amount of muscle mass that is trained. No one ever puked doing short rest periods between sets of curls, calf raises, or lateral raises to failure, but try doing that on squats and you better bring a bucket.
    So this central fatigue is like a governor on the accelerator, and load x reps, rest between sets, and total muscle mass used are all factors that play into how quickly you hit the governor. The more muscle mass used in a shortened rest scheme, the more likely you are to hit the governor, limiting the effectiveness of inducing hypertrophy for your efforts.

    Interestingly, Eric also discusses how if you are in better cardio shape, you can get away with shorter rest periods, which resonates well with the BBM side emphasis on cardio fitness to increase tolerance of additional strength training volume.
    Last edited by Serack; 09-22-2020, 02:06 PM.
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