Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Switching from conventional to sumo deadlift as my comp lift

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • rho
    commented on 's reply
    It's not that the lift-off is faster with sumo. It's that with conventional stance there is a sudden end to my capacity to lift the bar from the floor.
    So I do a single @8, add 2,5kg and I'm @11. No more lift-off.
    I do not have this with sumo.

  • Nate B
    commented on 's reply
    Interesting, I'm the opposite - overall stronger with sumo, but it's considerably slower off the floor compared to conventional. Consider yourself lucky in that regard, I guess!

  • rho
    replied
    Originally posted by Nate B View Post
    Rho, do you have trouble off the floor with both conventional and sumo? Maybe you should try incorporating some deficit or low pause deadlifts (2" or so off the floor) with either conventional, sumo, or both. Rows can help too. It could be an issue of weak muscles (back, quads) or merely an issue with your setup or technique that is putting you in a bad position at the beginning of the lift.
    No, lift off with sumo stance is considerably easier. Specifically when I'm already a few weeks into a training program. Doing conventional DLs as my main lift and assistance just doesn't work for me.
    Every time I try incorporating just a little more volume by doing deficit, snatch grip, paused, ... DL's it gets worse, not better. (been there, done that ... several times)
    With sumo this issue is much smaller.

    Leave a comment:


  • LeonSquatsky
    replied
    Originally posted by Nate B View Post

    But yes, doing more sumo will definitely help with your sumo technique, especially since you're just switching over to it as your competition stance. I hope it didn't seem like I was advocating for using exclusively conventional for all assistance lifts. Rather, I was trying to illustrate that there are different benefits to doing different assistance lifts, and to using one stance or the other. In all likelihood, your training will include a healthy mix of both. You'll find what works best for you with some trial and error.
    Also, if someone says they're switching to something as their comp lift, I assume that means they're going to train it for at least 12 weeks (3 months) to see where they can get sticking to it.

    Assistance exercises you can switch up every 4-8 weeks. So potentially three different sets of assistance exercises over one 12 week block training X as a competition lift.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nate B
    replied
    I guess it's worth saying that for assistance exercises, there are no "best" exercises, there are plenty of good options, and you probably want to cycle through them.
    Squatsky - thanks for clarifying what I was trying to say. Different assistance exercises have different benefits and purposes, as does using one stance or the other to do them. In my opinion, I feel like for a sumo puller that conventional stance variations are generally better for developmental work/improving weak musculature and sumo stance variations are generally better for improving a weak point in your technique.

    But yes, doing more sumo will definitely help with your sumo technique, especially since you're just switching over to it as your competition stance. I hope it didn't seem like I was advocating for using exclusively conventional for all assistance lifts. Rather, I was trying to illustrate that there are different benefits to doing different assistance lifts, and to using one stance or the other. In all likelihood, your training will include a healthy mix of both. You'll find what works best for you with some trial and error.

    Rho, do you have trouble off the floor with both conventional and sumo? Maybe you should try incorporating some deficit or low pause deadlifts (2" or so off the floor) with either conventional, sumo, or both. Rows can help too. It could be an issue of weak muscles (back, quads) or merely an issue with your setup or technique that is putting you in a bad position at the beginning of the lift.

    Leave a comment:


  • LeonSquatsky
    replied
    I guess it's worth saying that for assistance exercises, there are no "best" exercises, there are plenty of good options, and you probably want to cycle through them.

    Going a bit further, one of the things that carries over to sumo is keeping your back straight/tensed... which you trained doing the conventional deadlift!

    That being said, for technique purposes, you probably do want to mostly focus on one or the other.

    You can also look at shrugs and barbell rows as assistance exercises for all deadlifts. People who are good at deadlifting are usually good at deadlifting (both ways). It's possible you might end up better at pulling sumo, but the best way to get good at deadlifting is to get good at deadlifting, and there's a fair amount of carry over from one deadlift to the other.

    Leave a comment:


  • rho
    replied
    I've got kinda short arms, short legs and a longer torso. So I'm not build to DL at all.
    The problem I have with conventional DL is that the lift-off (the first 10cm/4" from the floor) is so hard compared to the rest of the ROM. It make no sense. And when I try to increase the volume a little it even start to irritate my lower back. In many cases it even hinders performance.
    I don't have this when I pull sumo. (Yet )
    So I can do assistance with a conventional stance as long as I keep the volume in check.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nate B
    replied
    Rho,

    I don't write my own programming anymore as of about 2 months ago (I'm working with Leah and she's been fantastic) but I will definitely start incorporating conventional assistance work again post competition. While I'll still pull sumo as my primary comp pull in training, I likely will do more conventional work the further out I am from an upcoming competition, and more sumo work the closer I get to competition. The way I understand it is that conventional work should have a strong carryover for sumo for everyone, unless you just have insane hip mobility and chimpanzee leverages and can pull almost completely upright (and even still I'd imagine some conventional work would be beneficial). The further you are from your next competition, you're typically using assistance work to train muscles more than movements, and conventional variations allow you to target your posterior chain more effectively than sumo. Take an RDL for example - you're loading your glutes, hams, and erectors more than a typical deadlift by moving pretty much exclusively through the hip joint and taking the quads more or less completely out of the movement. Doing these with a sumo stance inherently shortens the moment arm between the bar and hip joint when compared to a conventional stance, so you aren't hitting these muscles as effectively. Conventional and conventional variations are just really good at training and developing posterior chain musculature. I could be talking out of my ass here, though.

    I will say, too, that I've never really seen or heard of anyone doing exclusively sumo all the time. Even top sumo pullers like Cailer Woolam, Yury, etc. will do their fair share of conventional work in training.

    Leave a comment:


  • rho
    replied
    Hey Nate,
    Thanks for sharing your view on things.
    So you're doing a more gradual transition to sumo. I think that's a smart idea. Especially since you notice quite some carryover from your conventional work to the sumo stance.
    Will you you transition back to more conventional work for assistance after a comp? Or will you keep the sumo stance also for assistance work from then on?

    Leave a comment:


  • Nate B
    replied
    Hey Rho,

    I know you posed this question over a week ago, but I recently switched over to sumo and wanted to share my experience and what I've learned so far. Full disclaimer, I haven't been treating sumo as my competition lift for long at all. I am also definitely not a coach, nor am I an exceptionally strong or experienced lifter, so take this all with a grain of salt. I have been training for 3-ish years and have around a 1200 lbs total, so I'm not a complete novice or anything and like to think I have some semblance of an idea of what I'm talking about

    For me at least, sumo is more of a technique thing than anything. It's a noticeably different movement than conventional, but still very similar in that you're still using the same basic posterior chain musculature, and you're still doing a hip hinging movement from the floor. As a result, your typical deadlift assistance movements that will have a very high degree of carryover to your sumo deadlift, even if you do them with a conventional stance. Granted, I am not planning on competing for another few months so I'm definitely in a development block, but I do ALL of my assistance work at the moment with a conventional stance - stuff like RDL, SLDL, rack pulls, etc. and my sumo deadlift is still going up. I also do a decent amount of volume on my competition deadlift day - typically a heavy single and/or a set of 3-5 @ 8-9, followed by 20 or so backoff reps at a % drop - so I get a lot of direct sumo training and practice this way. Once I get closer to competition - say, 6-8 weeks out - I will start getting more specific with my assistance work - ditch the RDL for more competition similar movements like pause work - and start incorporating a sumo stance into these more specific assistance variations. I'll likely switch to exclusively sumo the closer and closer meet day gets.

    So yeah, I guess the TL;DR would be that conventional deadlift assistance exercises will have a very high carryover to your sumo deadlift, so keep doing your typical deadlift assistance exercises with a conventional stance in your developmental blocks. However, once you start to get closer to meet day and your assistance work needs to get more specific to the competition movement, I'd start using a sumo stance for everything.

    Hope this helps!

    Nate

    Leave a comment:


  • Switching from conventional to sumo deadlift as my comp lift

    I'm planning on switching from conventional to sumo deadlift as my comp lift (as in: the lift I do in actual competitions)
    Now I'm wondering what that would mean for my assistance exercises.
    Do I keep doing the same things? Are there better options as a sumo lifter that you would not do as a conventional lifter? Ex: What about RDL's? Do I do SLDL's with a sumo stance?

    Until now I've treated sumo as a lift I do during pivot blocks. But I noticed I can lift close to my conventional max within just 2 weeks of training sumo. So I guess that when I put some real effort into sumo I can surpass my conventional by some margin.
Working...
X