RPE Creep and other generic issues/advice

[Serack]

Issue 1

So I've seen the BBM coaches say that generally sets @8 RPE can be done as sets across, I.E. the same weight for all sets. I think I have also seen Jordan say its ok to have the RPE creep up and still maintain the weight as long as it doesn't get too bad, but I don't remember the topic, so I thought I'd check with the hivemind.

From my own limited experience, I've had the first set or 2 of 4 sets of 5 Press go 8, 8, 8.5, 9.5, then the next week it was 8, 8, 8.5, 10. So what do you guys think/know? Is a little creep ok, and when is it too much and you lower weight on sets @8 to maintain 8RPE?

I'll do a table of possibilities, assuming maintaining weight (and I acknowledge that for some of these instances, with intended RPE of 8 across, that's a bad idea)

example #	Set1	Set2	Set3	Set4
Ex1 (Base)	8	8	8	8
Ex2	8	8	8	8.5
Ex3	8	8	8.5	9
Ex4	8	8	9	9.5
Ex5	8	8.5	9	10

.
So in which of those hypothetical examples would the lifter reduce the load, and when?

Is it likely that the lifter assigned the wrong RPE for Ex5?

Issue 2
General advice that I've seen said a few times that I'd like to collect, and possibly put in my RPE cues post but first wish to verify:

1. It is better to shoot low on a weight for a particular RPE than to over do it.
2. 10's and AMRAPS during training... don't do them.

[neandrewthal]

That sound like pretty bad RPE creep. How long are you resting?

I usually lower the weight a bit if I hit 8.5 and I still have a couple sets left. Not by very much, unless it is on squats or deadlifts and I'm feeling super fatigued. No more than 5 lbs on presses, sometimes that will get it back down to 8, or sometimes it will just prevent it from reaching 9 since the fact that I went up to 8.5 in the first place means I'm starting to fatigue.

I will usually let the press creep a little more than the bench since the stress is lower and it's harder to increase the press. If the press is my last upper body competition movement of the week (ie. don't have comp bench 2 days later a la The Bridge) then I will just let the press creep as much as it wants to and never reduce the weight.

[llaffin]

That does seem like a lot of creep. Are you resting 5 mins? Three things I can think of is 1) youre unconditioned to volume and fatigue fast (which should fix itself with time), or 2) your first set isnt actually RPE 8, it's higher, so you're approaching RPE 10 quickly. Or 3) what you think is RPE 10 is actually much lower, you're just tired and it's clouding judgement.

Personally, I typically experience scenario 2 or 3 from your chart, depending on the lift and the day. For bench and press, I don't mind if it creeps to RPE 9 by the last set. Squat and DL I try to not go above 8.5.

I'd say just make sure you're resting enough, and over the weeks you should get better conditioned to repeat sets of @8.

For Issue #2, I prefer to slightly undershoot than overshoot, I feel its better for long term fatigue management, but Alan Thrall once said, paraphrased, "neither, learn to always hit the right RPE".

I'm not quite sure what you're asking with the second question.

[Serack]

That sound like pretty bad RPE creep. How long are you resting?

4 minutes using phone stop watch app. I could have sworn I'd read that was the target rest period for RPE training, but I can't find where I saw that. I did find the below quote from Jordan from an old post before (one I haven't seen before today)

source

Yessir, these are sets across ideally. I think sets @ 8 are mostly repeatable when given 4-5 min rest.

I usually lower the weight a bit if I hit 8.5 and I still have a couple sets left. Not by very much, unless it is on squats or deadlifts and I'm feeling super fatigued. No more than 5 lbs on presses, sometimes that will get it back down to 8, or sometimes it will just prevent it from reaching 9 since the fact that I went up to 8.5 in the first place means I'm starting to fatigue.

I will usually let the press creep a little more than the bench since the stress is lower and it's harder to increase the press. If the press is my last upper body competition movement of the week (ie. don't have comp bench 2 days later a la The Bridge) then I will just let the press creep as much as it wants to and never reduce the weight.

Thanks for sharing, makes me feel a little better... and of course I'll continue to strive to better gauge my RPE

That does seem like a lot of creep. Are you resting 5 mins?

See above response about rest interval

Three things I can think of is 1) youre unconditioned to volume and fatigue fast (which should fix itself with time), or 2) your first set isnt actually RPE 8, it's higher, so you're approaching RPE 10 quickly. Or 3) what you think is RPE 10 is actually much lower, you're just tired and it's clouding judgement.

1) I've done 3x5, 3x3, and 3x8s on press, but I haven't done anything more than 3 sets of press in nearly 2 years I think.
2) Possible, since I'm not particularly confident about any of my RPE's. Back when I was doing 5/3/1 last year, I once squatted 265 AMRAP for 5 and the next week I did 245 for 14.
3) No, that 10 was a 10, I barely got it up. The # of reps I can do for Press and Squat tend to drop off more rapidly as the weight increases compared to most chart projections. Probably lack of form coaching, or for squat, being more of an endurance type...

Personally, I typically experience scenario 2 or 3 from your chart, depending on the lift and the day. For bench and press, I don't mind if it creeps to RPE 9 by the last set. Squat and DL I try to not go above 8.5.

I'd say just make sure you're resting enough, and over the weeks you should get better conditioned to repeat sets of @8.

For Issue #2, I prefer to slightly undershoot than overshoot, I feel its better for long term fatigue management, but Alan Thrall once said, paraphrased, "neither, learn to always hit the right RPE".

I'm not quite sure what you're asking with the second question.

I was in a hurry to finish the post... I've seen Jordan chide people doing TM volume work for grinding, and came to the conclusion that 10's are typically detrimental for training, and should only be for competitions and such. And I've seen BBM coaches tisk over AMRAPs several times. I've only got limited exposure to coach designed RPE based templates, but it seems they never program in RPE10.

[Dave Hahn]

If the last set of my work sets get's into RPE 9, so be it. Otherwise I'd take some weight off the bar and do better next time.

[drdavidfranco]

After reading this, I guess I got the bridge all wrong. Probably explains why I got suboptimal results from it except for my deadlift. I have timed my rest periods for 3 minutes for upper body lifts, 5 minutes for lower body. Can't afford anymore time than this and it already takes up to 2 hours to complete workouts. I notice that for almost all my lifts, particularly the competition deadlifts and squats, after a five minute rest period my RPE for that set goes up by 1. So for example, if I squat [email protected] 8, the next round 340x5 occurs at about RPE 9. I was backing off an RPE each round. I tried keeping the same weight a few times but pretty much invariably the RPE creep is rather prominent.

Any thoughts on this? Looks like it's only happening to me. After readig this I was planning on maybe repeating the bridge 1.0 vs starting the 12 week strength template which seems more compatible with my goals. (Goals are to get retard strong without getting morbidly obese. I have no use for a 6-pack but waddling instead of walking isn't cool).

My background:
Lifting for about 2 years-did martial arts before that. Also did crossfit for about 2 years but saw some girls at the gym squatting my weight which turned me off completely so I bailed on CF. Had a 1 RM crappy looking squat @275 at that time. I'm 41 y.o. Sleep 8h day (on a CPAP) mostly although on some work days down to 6.5 h if I'm on call the day before. Eat about 3800-4000 Cal, aiming for 1g/lb BW protein which can be challenging. 6,1 and 220lb. Did SSLP. Then I did about 8 months of Texas Method. First 8 weeks were great, but gains tapered down. Adjusting the TM in various ways (making it 4day,etc) fixed the problem until about month 8 at which point nothing got better. Finished with BP TNG: 265/OHP: 185/ Squat 375/DL 435x3 (failed 445). After bridge 1.0: BP 1ct pause [email protected] 9.5/OHP [email protected] 8/ Squat 377.5 @RPE 9.5/DL 365 @RPE 9.5. Loved my DL gains,but everything else seemed somewhat.

Thanks for any feedback

[ionRod]

I'd say just make sure you're resting enough, and over the weeks you should get better conditioned to repeat sets of @8.

Would you recommend reducing the rest a little each time to get better conditioned for repeat sets? I used to be a 7 minute sloth during SSLP and now doing the Bridge 3.0 I rest about 3 minutes and feel fine. Maybe I could push for harder sets with a little more rest, but I find the benefit of shorter training sessions and improved work capacity to be worth it, especially since my lifts are still trending up.

[llaffin]

Would you recommend reducing the rest a little each time to get better conditioned for repeat sets? I used to be a 7 minute sloth during SSLP and now doing the Bridge 3.0 I rest about 3 minutes and feel fine. Maybe I could push for harder sets with a little more rest, but I find the benefit of shorter training sessions and improved work capacity to be worth it, especially since my lifts are still trending up.

Yeah I suppose that is one way you could do it. I'd probably prefer to just pick a rest time and make yourself stick to it each week, and you should naturally just get better at being able to repeat sets @8 with that rest interval.

I used to be a 7 minute sloth too, but also rather enjoy my 3 minute rests - hasn't really had any negative effect on my strength, and I'm more in shape