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Beginner Template Week 4: Deadlift regressing...?

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  • Beginner Template Week 4: Deadlift regressing...?

    Here's how I got here as my first attempt(s) at a lifting program:
    1. June&July: Best attempt at an SSLP with no rack. This essentially means SSLP for deadlift only with a few accessory movements.
    2. August 1-14: 2 weeks of SSLP for the 3 lifts, with no drop in DL
    3. August 15-Now: Beginner Template
    Now my issue is that throughout the 4 weeks of the beginner template my Deadlift is going backwards. I get to 6RPE then add 10lbs (~3%) for 7REP and another 10lbs but always end up failing the 8RPE set or sets. This causes the e1RM to fall. It seems to be getting worse each week, e1RMs of : 437, 416, 400, 400 for each week, respectively on 8reps(day 1) and 412, 394 and 381 on the 4 reps (day 3).

    Is this just because it is most "most trained" lift and/or the fatigue from the other lifts is impacting it (whereas in June/July that was unlikely). The other lifts are progressing nicely.

    I know I am meant to wait for 2 lifts to be failing before moving on to Phase 2. Should I reset my DL and push on with Phase 1? If so, how much? If not, what else would you recommend?

    Edit: one variable is that, since finding BBM, I have unsubscribed from the GOMAD, 2000 calories above "maintenance" nutrition advice I incorrectly (even my that programs standards) followed in July and June and July. I am now running about 200 calories below my NIH calculated maintenance to slowly get my waist down from 37". I have been maintaining weight for the last 4 weeks vs. the 1-2lb a week gain previously.
    I would expect that a nutrition issue would affect all lifts equally but maybe DL is more sensitive to a calorie deficit...?
    Last edited by giveitsomeenglish; 09-10-2020, 10:57 PM.

  • #2
    overshooting, especially to the point of failing lifts, is probably interfering with your progress. if a 10lbs jump from RPE7 is too much then take a smaller jump (possibly 0 lbs).

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    • #3
      I definitely think that on day 1 where DL is after Squat and Bench this makes sense.

      When DL is first, on day 3, I have a hard time understanding how a 0lb increase would result in an increase in RPE. I'll try much smaller jumps, that are achievable, vs. failing at larger jumps.

      Thanks

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      • #4
        Failing what you anticipated to be an RPE 8 set is pretty strange. I would have to guess you are overshooting on the previous sets as well.

        More generally if the DL volume is higher than what you were doing, it should be working. It's possible there's some recovery issue with your diet if you're not at least maintaining strength, but I think you would know if that was the issue because you'd be feeling pretty beat up before your workouts.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by HansAndFranz View Post
          feeling pretty beat up before your workouts.
          How would you gauge this? I don't feel 100% fresh before each workout. I feel some general aches but no more than in previous exercise (not training or gaining significant strength) experience whether that's resistance training, cycling, running etc.

          I seem to have lost almost 2" on my waist in the last 4 weeks (38 to 36.25). Does this seem too aggressive to also maintain strength?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by giveitsomeenglish View Post
            How would you gauge this? I don't feel 100% fresh before each workout. I feel some general aches but no more than in previous exercise (not training or gaining significant strength) experience whether that's resistance training, cycling, running etc.

            I seem to have lost almost 2" on my waist in the last 4 weeks (38 to 36.25). Does this seem too aggressive to also maintain strength?
            It's in the ballpark of reasonable weight loss. Between individual variance and error in measurement, I think anyone that told you that is too much or too little is probably guessing.

            I generally prefer to count calories and keep in a 500 calorie deficit a day and monitor strength and waist. I use weight measurements to determine if I am indeed in the 500 calorie deficit I think I am, and WC+weight on the bar to monitor how quickly (if I am) I'm losing strength.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Smokes View Post
              500 calorie deficit a day
              Yeah, I'm probably in that ballpark if I factor in the added LISS that I'm doing. Obviously I'm not expecting to lose 2" every month, I assume the loss will not be linear
              Originally posted by Smokes View Post
              monitor how quickly (if I am) I'm losing strength.
              What's a reasonable trade off between waist loss and strength loss do you think? Obviously there's personal preference but now I am under the elevated risk waist limit I am marginally less concerned with waist loss and marginally more concerned with strength loss.

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              • #8
                Ya, it's really hard to say but mentally I'm usually content to compare where i was last time at that same weight on the big 4 in combination with WC.

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                • #9
                  How long are you resting between your RPE 7 and RPE 8 sets? If you're going from having 3-ish reps in the tank to straight up failing after a 10 lbs jump, you might not be resting long enough to be recovered for the next set. A caloric deficit would certainly exacerbate this issue, too. If you're resting enough, though, I agree with the other posters that what you think is an RPE 7 probably isn't actually be an RPE 7. It sounds like you're fairly new to RPE based training, so it might just take some more time to feel out what certain RPEs feel like.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nate B View Post
                    How long are you resting between your RPE 7 and RPE 8 sets?
                    No less than the prescribed 3-5 minutes, often longer as I am looking at video of the last set to check form.

                    I agree judging RPE is a skill that needs work. Interestingly, now I think about it, in my previous exercise history (running, cycling etc.) I have always found that I hold too much in reserve. E.g. Pushing a pace that I think would be 100% and then seeing can push further helped me progress in running. Could be the same mental hurdle here.

                    As my RPE judgements get better the absolute numbers may look wrong based on a previously miscalculated RPE. I shouldn't get too disheartened now I recognize that.

                    Thanks all

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