# Attacks from Starting Strength Staff? **URL:** \ **Category:** Programming Discussion\ **Created:** [August 15, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992 "2018-08-15T00:17:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dtarrence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/dtarrence/32/444_2.png) [@dtarrence](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/dtarrence)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 12:17am UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/1 "2018-08-15T00:17:06Z")
Jordan, I’ve been listening to your QAs and livestreams as fast as you can post them. You keep referencing attacks and negative comments about yourself and bbm from SS staff. I unfortunately have not been ablento find any such comments on social media or either respective business’s forums. Could you point me in the right direction to see these comments. Not trying to start an arguement, i just want to be informed. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![LeahBBM](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/leahbbm/32/17_2.png) [@LeahBBM](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/LeahBBM)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 1:52pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/2 "2018-08-15T13:52:20Z")
This would be a very unfruitful online venture, don’t you think? This is not something any of us are going to post or recount here. ---
**Author:** ![dtarrence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/dtarrence/32/444_2.png) [@dtarrence](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/dtarrence)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 2:27pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/3 "2018-08-16T14:27:26Z")
I understand, but am I supposed to take your word for it that these exchanges happened? Ive not seen them, so unless someone can provide evidence that they exist, i have no reason to believe it actually happened. If it happened in a personal space i would understand.( it would obviously be inappropriate for me to ask to see jordan’s personal message, etc.) But if these exchanges happened in public then why would you want me to not see them? In short, an accusation has been made so I’d like to see the evidence for it. ---
**Author:** ![Elton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/elton/32/1426_2.png) [@Elton](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Elton)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/4 "2018-08-16T15:11:24Z")
This topic has been discussed at [www.exodus-strength.com](http://www.exodus-strength.com) if you really want to sniff out for red meat. 1. The SS forum has some coach-only forums that are private which is where most of the drama happened. 2. SS forum has been actively deleting/censoring public posts made by Austin, Jordan, as well as other people you may not know, like Izzy from PowerliftingToWin and Hanely. 3. In the end, none of the drama really matters. You can just take Jordan’s words with a grain of salt. ---
**Author:** ![LeahBBM](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/leahbbm/32/17_2.png) [@LeahBBM](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/LeahBBM)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 3:21pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/5 "2018-08-16T15:21:31Z")
I agree that you would have to take his word for it, so it’s probably best to let it go. I am not sure that many people on the internet have personal reason to get too involved in the details. I realize it is intriguing and seems like it can matter, but in the end we’re about training and all that’s related to that. People get to go wherever they would like for information and help. IG lives can sometimes move over into some of our personal lives vs. strictly business, I acknowledge this. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Dave\_E](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Dave_E)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/6 "2018-08-16T22:31:42Z")
Though I have zero interest in some handbags at ten paces stoush between fitness industry identities, I could well imagine animosity toward BBM. When you’re factually outpointed and refuse to pick up the gauntlet, ad hominem seems to be the next logical step (no pun intended…) After many years of following the SS model, buying their books, following their advice, I was over it. Where I use to find Rip entertaining, like _that_ uncle most of us have, his reluctance to entertain even the slightest deviation or critique of his methods was a huge red flag to me, along with claims that couldn’t _possibly_ be true - works every single time its applied!! His (their) bullish insistence for example that we need _less_ volume as we get older basically saw my progress stall for about a year. Old man Texas? Fuck that. BBM clearly wants people to think for themselves along with being open to new evidence as it emerges, in other words, not being wrong any longer than necessary. SS seem more comfortable with the status quo. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Hartigan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/ryan_hartigan/32/1067_2.png) [@Ryan\_Hartigan](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Ryan_Hartigan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/7 "2018-08-17T02:22:39Z")
> [@dtarrence](#): > > Jordan, I’ve been listening to your QAs and livestreams as fast as you can post them. You keep referencing attacks and negative comments about yourself and bbm from SS staff. I unfortunately have not been ablento find any such comments on social media or either respective business’s forums. Could you point me in the right direction to see these comments. Not trying to start an arguement, i just want to be informed. Thanks. > [@dtarrence](#): > > I understand, but am I supposed to take your word for it that these exchanges happened? Ive not seen them, so unless someone can provide evidence that they exist, i have no reason to believe it actually happened. If it happened in a personal space i would understand.( it would obviously be inappropriate for me to ask to see jordan’s personal message, etc.) But if these exchanges happened in public then why would you want me to not see them? In short, an accusation has been made so I’d like to see the evidence for it. I would suggest starting with [www.startingstrength.com/resources/forum/](http://www.startingstrength.com/resources/forum/) then dig through the relevant instagrams and youtube accounts. Most of the hatchet jobs went down terribly and were deleted, you might be able to find one or two that weren’t. If you’re looking for someone to make a list for you of all the bitter, stupid shit SS & co have said in the past 8 months you’re out of luck because it would be a big job. [www.exodus-strength.com](http://www.exodus-strength.com/) has a megathread dedicated to this very topic, though, I would like to warn you there’s no going back once you go down that rabbit hole. My advice? Take the blue pill and don’t ever learn what happened in Dallas. ---
**Author:** ![Elton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/elton/32/1426_2.png) [@Elton](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Elton)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 2:29am UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/8 "2018-08-17T02:29:41Z")
Take the blue pill, OP. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Hartigan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/ryan_hartigan/32/1067_2.png) [@Ryan\_Hartigan](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Ryan_Hartigan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 2:36am UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/9 "2018-08-17T02:36:45Z")
I would rather run out Texas Method for 5 years than take the red pill if I could do it over again. ---
**Author:** ![llaffin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/llaffin/32/327_2.png) [@llaffin](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/llaffin)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 2:49am UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/10 "2018-08-17T02:49:03Z")
> [@Ryan\_Hartigan](#): > > I would rather run out Texas Method for 5 years than take the red pill if I could do it over again. Well now you’re just making me more curious. Time to dig through the exodus forums to find this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Dave\_E](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Dave_E)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 3:37am UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/11 "2018-08-17T03:37:45Z")
Can I get a magenta pill? ---
**Author:** ![jwls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5fc32e/32.png) [@jwls](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/jwls)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2019, 8:55pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/12 "2019-01-26T20:55:27Z")
Yeah… so I have just experienced this first hand. I have been a follower of SS for years and now BBM of course but not to a level where I heard much at all about the drama in the background during or after the split. So now SS has released a two part article called “Herculean Hypertrophy and Milo’s Mass”, which is pretty good to be fair. What’s funny though is that it basically highlights every aspects of programming as being correct, that drove BBM and SS apart initially. Because science suddenly says so. I posted the following comment, which of course got deleted/censored: > Great article! > > Unfortunately the results pretty much make me regret the departure of Jordan and Austin from SS. I was one of the people giving Jordan a hard time when his Texas Method vs. 531 article came out (though it has been an informative discussion for sure). Now this article pretty much summarizes what Jordan has been saying all along: > > - Volume and frequent exposure is king for hypertrophy and strength as long as the weights are sufficiently heavy and it’s not overdone > - 4-5 min rest between sets is ideal (and more isn’t necessary if you don’t do sets to failure as it just cuts away from your time that could be spend doing more volume) > - Sets to failure aren’t necessary for hypertrophy/strength, are more taxing, increase rest periods and thus limit volume one can do in a workout… sets @RPE 8 anyone? > - “…with auto-regulation being our best tool…” > - Varying rep ranges from 1 - 12 are useful > - Partial ROM exercises like pin benches, rack pulls, etc. are useful additions to a program > > Despite giving him a hard time back then I’ve tried his programming just out of curiosity and I have to admit that his stuff does work. Some of the most eye-opening things I’ve learned using his type of programming is that > > - all the exercise variations, contrary to what I expected, helped me reduce form creep and better cement in proper technique, > - volume doesn’t (nearly) kill me all as long as I don’t do grinders on every set as I used to, > - I _can_ actually get stronger without having to do all those grinders, > - all of that has been especially true for the deadlift where I learned that I do tolerate more volume, which does help with fatigue resistance, strength and form on the DL, > - something something RPE. Now maybe I shouldn’t have been as optimistic with posting it but I find it really pitiful of them to censor/delete it nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Hartigan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/ryan_hartigan/32/1067_2.png) [@Ryan\_Hartigan](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Ryan_Hartigan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/13 "2019-01-26T21:56:59Z")
Don’t worry @jwls , when they finally catch up, they’ll say that’s what they were doing all along. ---
**Author:** ![Goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ea666f/32.png) [@Goat](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Goat)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 11:17am UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/14 "2019-01-28T11:17:53Z")
Somebody care to point me to the exodus megathread? I probably know most of what went down, but I’m interested, and it seems my google fu has failed me. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Hanley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b3f665/32.png) [@John\_Hanley](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/John_Hanley)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/15 "2019-01-28T16:50:13Z")
> [@jwls](#): > > I find it really pitiful of them to censor/delete it nonetheless. They deleted my account when I suggested (politely, I think) that the pressing programming in SS LP didn’t yield good results for me as a lifter or coach. Feedback contrary to corporate messaging was not welcome. The organization is not at all the same one I joined circa 2013. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Herbison](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/sean_herbison/32/787_2.png) [@Sean\_Herbison](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Sean_Herbison)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/16 "2019-01-28T21:07:06Z")
Nah, Hanley, it was because your essay was retroactively too short. > [@Dave\_E](#): > > Can I get a magenta pill? [ATTACH=JSON]{“alt”:“Click image for larger version Name:\t105.png Views:\t0 Size:\t57.8 KB ID:\t30953”,“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“30953”,“data-size”:“full”,“title”:“105.png”}[/ATTACH] ---
**Author:** ![Austin\_Baraki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/austin_baraki/32/1095_2.png) [@Austin\_Baraki](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Austin_Baraki)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 3:51am UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/17 "2019-01-29T03:51:35Z")
> [@jwls](#): > > Yeah… so I have just experienced this first hand. I have been a follower of SS for years and now BBM of course but not to a level where I heard much at all about the drama in the background during or after the split. > > So now SS has released a two part article called “Herculean Hypertrophy and Milo’s Mass”, which is pretty good to be fair. What’s funny though is that it basically highlights every aspects of programming as being correct, that drove BBM and SS apart initially. Because science suddenly says so. I posted the following comment, which of course got deleted/censored: > > Now maybe I shouldn’t have been as optimistic with posting it but I find it really pitiful of them to censor/delete it nonetheless. Yeah, we noticed this in the conclusions of that article series as well. Pretty amusing, but unsurprising. Tom actually predicted this would happen a while back. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Herbison](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/sean_herbison/32/787_2.png) [@Sean\_Herbison](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Sean_Herbison)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2019, 11:18am UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/18 "2019-01-29T11:18:03Z")
> [@Austin\_Baraki](#): > > Yeah, we noticed this in the conclusions of that article series as well. > > Pretty amusing, but unsurprising. Tom actually predicted this would happen a while back. Well, it’s been happening for a while with the BBL podcast, so yeah, not surprising that an article would do a similar thing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Hanley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b3f665/32.png) [@John\_Hanley](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/John_Hanley)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 5:56am UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/19 "2019-01-30T05:56:08Z")
> [@voluntarySquatship](#): > > those who want to do bodybuilding. I may be wrong. Choose love, Stevane. LOVE! And ALWAYS take contractile tissue! You can optimize that shit later for peak-force production (technique refinement, neuroshit, etc). ---
**Author:** ![Wilhelm](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/wilhelm/32/1356_2.png) [@Wilhelm](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Wilhelm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992/20 "2019-01-30T13:57:43Z")
Then there was the incident where several people had the descriptor c\*\*t attached to their profiles on StSt. I forget exactly the explanation, but believe admins tried to pass it off as some kind of clerical error. [Next page](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/attacks-from-starting-strength-staff/2992.md?page=2)