# Milking out LP for Squats **URL:** \ **Category:** Training Q&A \[Moderated\]\ **Created:** [April 11, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/milking-out-lp-for-squats/1550 "2018-04-11T14:13:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bobby32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Bobby32](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Bobby32)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/milking-out-lp-for-squats/1550/1 "2018-04-11T14:13:33Z")
Hello Mr Feigenbaum or Mr. Baraki. I’ve heard you guys say in your podcasts that you disagree with milking out LP, like switching to 5x3, 5rm with 2 back offs, etc, because it reduces volume which is what you need more of. This brought me to ask a few questions: 1. Do you guys use the DL/Chin/PC/Chin cycle with your novices? It seems like that is very little deadlift volume. Right now I’m alternating deadlifts and PCleans, without chins. Should I switch to the Dl/Chin/PC/Chin cycle when I stall on deads? Or just add chins to power clean days? 2. In your podcast called “Tips and tricks for LP” Jordan says he likes to alternate 5x5 with 5x3 with the upper body lifts when they stall. Can you do the same for squats? Or would you just switch to intermediate after you have stalled on 3x5, assuming that you have already added a light day. Ive read PP, but I understand some of the stuff in their on Stress/Recovery/Adaptation is flawed according to what you guys say. Thanks for any help! ---
**Author:** ![Jordan\_Feigenbaum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/jordan_feigenbaum/32/1315_2.png) [@Jordan\_Feigenbaum](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Jordan_Feigenbaum)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/milking-out-lp-for-squats/1550/2 "2018-04-11T20:50:18Z")
Hi Bobby, Thanks for the post and happy to have you. To your questions: 1. Nope. I think that when you stall on deadlifts in LP you should add more sets of deadlifts. 2. You _can_ do that, sure. However, I think that once you start modifying LP in this manner you should be plotting changing the programming to reflect your post-novice needs. ---
**Author:** ![Bobby32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Bobby32](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Bobby32)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/milking-out-lp-for-squats/1550/3 "2018-04-12T00:10:52Z")
Thanks for your reply! So just one more thing, would you add chins to the power clean days? ---
**Author:** ![Jordan\_Feigenbaum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/jordan_feigenbaum/32/1315_2.png) [@Jordan\_Feigenbaum](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Jordan_Feigenbaum)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/milking-out-lp-for-squats/1550/4 "2018-04-12T13:45:00Z")
I might, but I would probably be chinning more than once a week depending on the person. ---
**Author:** ![Bobby32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Bobby32](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Bobby32)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/milking-out-lp-for-squats/1550/5 "2018-04-12T14:53:52Z")
Thanks for the reply. So would you do them 2 or 3 times a week? Weighted or unweighted? Should I start deadlifting just once a week instead of alternating deads and cleans? For example deadlift Monday, weighted chins Wednesday, power clean and BW chins Friday? Also I wanted the ask you about your article “press like a pro”.If one were to use that technique, do you consciously fire your hips back like in Tommy Sugg’s video, or is it more a strict press with a layback at the start? Thank you for your time. ---
**Author:** ![Bobby32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Bobby32](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Bobby32)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/milking-out-lp-for-squats/1550/6 "2018-04-12T16:35:00Z")
Oh I forgot to give you my personal stats: 15 years old, 172lbs, 18% bodyfat(roughly), 5’9”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Hades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d2c977/32.png) [@Dr.Hades](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Dr.Hades)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/milking-out-lp-for-squats/1550/7 "2018-04-12T16:52:03Z")
The idea that one set of 5 on deadlift in the SSLP and then in an intermediate program is doomed to fail? I think the book PP makes that 1x5RM is more than enough, although Andy Baker seems to disagree. Jordan, do you think to add volume and intensity to the deadlift day is better accomplished with 1x1 and than adding the back off sets, or is it difficult adding the weight on the bar on a weekly basis? Or 5 reps for intensity and than back offs? Or a mixture. Or it just depends? ---
**Author:** ![Austin\_Baraki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/austin_baraki/32/1095_2.png) [@Austin\_Baraki](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Austin_Baraki)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 12:34pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/milking-out-lp-for-squats/1550/8 "2018-04-13T12:34:22Z")
> [@Dr.Hades](#): > > The idea that one set of 5 on deadlift in the SSLP and then in an intermediate program is doomed to fail? I think the book PP makes that 1x5RM is more than enough, although Andy Baker seems to disagree. > > Jordan, do you think to add volume and intensity to the deadlift day is better accomplished with 1x1 and than adding the back off sets, or is it difficult adding the weight on the bar on a weekly basis? Or 5 reps for intensity and than back offs? Or a mixture. Or it just depends? Just like anything else, 1 x 5 RM will work _for a little while_. It’s not “more than enough” forever, and I hope that no one would argue such a thing. And we use both strategies in people. Just depends on the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Lane\_Foulks](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/lane_foulks/32/967_2.png) [@Lane\_Foulks](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Lane_Foulks)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/milking-out-lp-for-squats/1550/9 "2018-04-13T14:52:13Z")
Bobby, I also wanted to make sure you were aware that the docs put out a suggested modification to NLP for when your upper body lifts start stagnate in a recent news letter. It is pretty common for them to be the first to reach a point of not getting enough stress to continue progressing. See: > **[Barbell Medicine Newsletter Volume 2 Issue 19](https://us14.campaign-archive.com/?u=8cf048de4340073ef610fe9f1&id=dca6ebe0a0)** > > New Year's Deals! Tackle your hip pain while squatting and a review of the literature concerning supplements and cognitive-based performance. > We’d recommend doing the following as a direct plug-and-play for workouts A and B: > > Workout A > Squats per SSLP > Bench x 1 @ +5% from last 5 x 3 sets on LP, then take 15% off the bar for 5 reps x 5 sets > Deadlift per SSLP > Press x 8 reps x 4 sets @ -12% from previous press 5 x 3 sets on LP > > Workout B > Squats per SSLP > Press 1 @ +5% from last 5 x 3 sets, then take 15% off the bar for 4 reps x 6 sets > Power Cleans or Rows per SSLP > Close grip bench x 8 reps x 4 sets @ -15% from previous bench press 5 x 3 sets on LP > > Progression/Notes > -Attempt to add 2.5-5lbs per week on all sets without going above RPE (rate or perceived exertion) 8, which denotes having approximately 2 reps left in reserve, i.e. you could’ve done another 2 reps before failing. > > -Bench presses are touch and go. You can use a belt if you like. > Presses are done from a dead stop. You can also use a belt if you like. > > -Rest 4-5 minutes between work sets > Alternate A and B workouts as you were on Starting Strength LP (SSLP) > > -When your squat and deadlift stop increasing on SSLP, start The Bridge. ---
**Author:** ![neandrewthal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex001/user_avatar/forum.barbellmedicine.com/neandrewthal/32/666_2.png) [@neandrewthal](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/neandrewthal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/milking-out-lp-for-squats/1550/10 "2018-04-13T16:39:36Z")
> [@Austin\_Baraki](#): > > Just like anything else, 1 x 5 RM will work _for a little while_. It’s not “more than enough” forever, and I hope that no one would argue such a thing. > > And we use both strategies in people. Just depends on the situation. I know of someone who would argue that it’s more than enough until it’s too much and then you have to alternate it with rack pulls and halting deads so you only do each once every 3 weeks 😵‍💫 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Bobby32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Bobby32](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Bobby32)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/milking-out-lp-for-squats/1550/11 "2018-04-13T20:29:00Z")
Thanks for all the feedback! Mr Baraki, so your saying you prefer for me to stick to alternating deadlifts and power cleans, instead of deadlifting once a week? ---
**Author:** ![Bobby32](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Bobby32](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/u/Bobby32)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/t/milking-out-lp-for-squats/1550/12 "2018-04-13T21:46:14Z")
Also should chins be 3 sets to failure or 3 sets with 1 or 2 reps in the tank?