Adding Weight

Hi guys,

I’ve been following RPE and BBM for about 6 months now. It’s been a journey, especially since I came from a training background of balls to the wall failure on every set, but I think I’m making progress.

My current strategy is to stay at a weight until it feels easier. For example:
W1 - 100kg 6@8
W2 - 100kg 6@8
….
Until one week I do the same weight and it feels like RPE 7. Then I add 5kg and continue.

I found that deciding when to add 2.5kg got annoying, so this way is easier mentally. However, progress is much slower to see, which isn’t motivating. Normally around week 3 of not adding weight I start to think I’m doing something wrong.

Maybe I’m still stuck in that linear progression mindset where I’m looking for progress each week. Damn you Ripp.

How do you guys approach progression? Do you follow something similar or have a different strategy?

Thanks!

Hey there.

I have limited training experience, so you should take this with a grain of NaCl.

100 kg @8 last week might be @7 this week, and you may be planning to add weight the next time. However, next time it could also turn out to be @9-10. Hence, I would still urge you to make diligent use of RPE to provide the right amount of stress.

In practice, I would do something like this:

  1. Say my program requires me to do sets of 5@8, and I lifted 80 kg last week, giving me an e1RM of ~100 kg.

  2. For this session, I would increase my e1RM somewhat reasonably, say by 2.5 kg.

Then I would either,

3a. Calculate the target warm-up sets @6 and @7 to be 77.5 kg and 80 kg, respectively. By rating how these were (right after the set is over), I would decide whether to go ahead with the planned @8 or modify it.

Or,

3b. Repeat last week’s warm-up weights and compare if they moved faster/slower/at the same pace as the week before and make the call on the top set weights.

Hope I made sense.

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AJ, just pick a BBM template and follow it for your first run. You’ll learn a lot about what you enjoy and your response to the template.

I was just like you, reading the BBM stuff and trying to incorporate it into my own programming and ideas. But I found it so much simpler – and my results picked up big time – when I took the plunge and bought some templates. Good luck man.

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Kevin, do the templates “insist” that you do certain lifts, or do they allow you to pick your own? I understand that certain lifts and their variants are considered superior for hypertrophy and strength: primarily squat, deadlift, bench, overhead press, and their variants. Due to garage gym and the fact that I just plain don’t want to do certain lifts anymore, I have chosen about a dozen lifts that I like, and I program those.

Brian, some templates have a drop-down menu that allow you to choose among several exercises. Other templates, such as PL 2, do not.

I simply edit the name of the exercise if I want to do something different. For example, I like to use a SSB for some squats, so I’ll just edit “Squat with belt” to “SSB with belt.”

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Thanks Kevin. Do the templates you’ve seen have any accompanying text that talks about exercise substitutions? I’m wondering how it would be to try to “shoehorn” all my own lifts into any of the templates. Probably not what the BBM team would advise, and I’d probably have a hard time making it work. I liked your suggestion about just buying a template and running with it, but then I thought about my own program and how much thought I’ve put into exercise selection, where they’re located in relation to each other, how I’ve spaced them out to allow good recovery, etc. I’m probably better off at this point just going to school on any programming information I come across, and seeing how I can incorporate that into my own self-designed program.

Brian, reading your words makes me think that I’m reading my own diary. I used to feel exactly as you do. “Nobody knows my body and motivations better than me. Why buy a cookie-cutter template that can’t possibly account for everything I know about myself from my own experience?”

But once I finally bought a program, it was obvious in hindsight that despite the years I’d put into learning about programming and the painstaking time I spent tweaking my own programs – my programs weren’t that good!

I got better results and enjoyed training a lot more once I started doing a template.

Yes, the templates have detailed recommendations for possible substitutions due to equipment limitations, your preferences, working around injuries, etc. They even list the substitutions in order of which BBM recommends first. E.g., in PL 2 for “overload bench,” a slingshot is BBM’s first preference, followed by chains if you don’t have a slingshot, followed by bands if you don’t have chains, and so on.

How much does exercise selection matter? I believe BBM would say:

  1. For your first run, do the prescribed exercises if you can, without modify the template.

  2. For subsequent runs, feel free to modify and take notes on your results.

Believe me I am just as stubborn as you are – if not more – about my preferences. But what I found after I did my first BBM template was that it was quite liberating to be open to trying movements that I thought might be suboptimal for me for whatever reason.

We’re training for a lifetime so the worst case scenario is you spend a few weeks doing an exercise and gathering data on your response to that exercise. You’re doing a fun experiment. If you find that the exercise wasn’t particularly effective for you, that’s valuable information that you’ve learned and you just don’t know if it’s good or not for you until you try it consistently for at least a block or so.

On recovery, the templates use RPE so that should help to mitigate recovery. If you’re especially strong and fresh then you’ll use heavier loads and if you’re a bit fatigued then you’ll just use a lighter load, no worries.

Go for it buddy! :slight_smile:

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Great discussion guys, really informative.

Kevin, what you’ve said resonates with me. I tend to sweat the small stuff, a lot. This is why RPE has been such a challenge for me, whether it be worrying about over or undershooting. I’m going to save myself a lot of stress and purchase a template!

How is your training right now? Are you running a BBM template?

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Hi AJ, I can relate to sweating the small stuff. I didn’t even know that I was worrying over minutia until I I promised myself that I would commit to a BBM template 100% instead of “doing my own thing.”

You can always go back to your own tweaking later if the template doesn’t work out.

Last Saturday I bought 6 of the BBM templates:

| |
| |
| Powerlifting II Template | Never | Powerlifting II |
| Hypertrophy II Template | Never | Hypertrophy II |
| Strength III Template | Never | Strength III |
| Powerbuilding III Template | Never | Powerbuilding III Template |
| Bodybuilding Template | Never | Bodybuilding Template |
| Powerbuilding II Template | Never | Powerbuilding II |

I started PL 2 on Monday.

I decided a few months ago that I wanted to invest in templates so I simply did the free Bridge 1.0 before that.

My results:

E1rm: 1. Squat with SSB: 333 to 380 lbs (+47)
2. Bench with football bar: 235 to 236 lbs (+1)
3. Deadlift: 364 to 494 lbs (+130)
4. Press, seated without back support (low ceiling): 116 to 118 lbs (+2) Some notes: 1. This was the first time that I’ve done less than 8 reps on the above exercises in several years.
2. I did sumo for deadlift. This is the first time I’ve ever done sumo. (Conventional was causing a pinching pain in the middle of my upper traps – even with a tempo and low loads – so I did sumo instead.)

  1. I gained 4.5 lbs and a ¼” on my WC:

Bodyweight: 200 to 204.5 lbs (+4.5)
WC: 35.1 to 35.32” (+0.2)

Here are some before photos, I haven’t taken any after photos yet: https://photos.app.goo.gl/nCrTLb6xik2tGSxb7

Analysis:
Why didn’t my bench and press increase? I think because:

  1. The Bridge had less volume for bench and pressing than I did before.

  2. I think it’s easier to train hard on bench and press than it is on squat and deadlift. It’s easy to hit RPE 10 on bench and press but RPE 10 on squat and deadlift is truly hard.

I think that before the Bridge, I was already trying hard on the bench and press but on S and D I was holding back, so I had a lot more room to try a bit harder and progress on S and D.

RPE: don’t worry about under or overshooting a bit. It happens sometimes. You just correct your load a bit on the next set. All good.

Let me know if this helps, cheers mate.

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Appreciate you taking the time Kevin.

I have recently had an epiphany when it comes to aches, pains, and injuries. I used to think it was all about form. Now, I’m 100% convinced that it’s all about the stress you’re applying. I started my own self-designed program in March, and I quickly picked up a few aches and pains. Months later, I realized that it’s because I didn’t gradually build up, but rather I just jumped into it. My first workout was 4x4 deadlift @ ~80% intensity. That was ~5000 lbs of tonnage, pretty much out of nowhere, as I hadn’t been really training deadlift, just doing a session every now and then. I’ve since learned my lesson. So that’s one of the things that worries me about starting a template: what if it’s too much stress right off the bat? I don’t want to pick up any aches and pains, because they inevitably follow me around for months and months, even when I make adjustments to lessen the applied stress density. I would only feel comfortable building up. And I’m unsure how I would build up when I’m supposed to just jump in and follow a template. You know?

On the topic of exercise selection, it’s more like “instead of OHP, can I just do seated landmine press?”. That level of deviation. And I’d love to work some of my “pet” lifts–like curls, dips, weighted pushups, a few others–into whichever of their templates I’d go with. Then there’s the garage gym aspect where I just can’t do certain things. And quite frankly, some lifts I just do not want to do anymore. I do not want to do a full-ROM bench press due to shoulder pain that always develops whenever I try to resume bench press and I get up to a certain weight. I am currently training a truncated-ROM floor press off of chairs, and even that bothers me sometimes if my shoulders aren’t well rested and I’m not paying extreme attention to keeping everything “tight”. Have requested a “swiss bar” for my Christmas wishlist so I can adopt a neutral hand position that I suspect/hope will eliminate any shoulder pain. Basically, I’d love to just take my own lifts that I’ve gotten comfortable/confident with, and apply BBM’s programming expertise to them.

RPE would be difficult for me. I’m an engineer and put a lot of stock in “hard numbers”. I like to program numbers, and hit those numbers. Also, after years of pushing myself, I can push myself pretty hard. I would probably end up doing too many reps at too high of an intensity, thus applying too much stress and driving myself into the ground with aches and pains. And then if I tried to dial back, I would have that guilty feeling that I’m not working hard enough, and maybe I could have done a few more reps.

I would say the 1st 2 things–(1) not overdoing a new stimulus in the beginning, and (2) exercise selection and substitution–are what worry me the most. I can probably eventually warm up to RPE.

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Kevin, looking absolutely incredible buddy, great work. You’ve really helped me dig myself out of the hole I was regarding training.

Let us know how the new templates work out for you. Looking forward to seeing your progress!

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Brian, great post.

Like a lot of lifters I can relate to all of your concerns – don’t we all share the same main goals and come across the same obstacles eventually?

If I may share my related experience and what’s helped me:

Gradually increase the stimulus

I agree that we should conservatively increase the stimulus. It gives our body time to adapt to it.

Our bodies are not machines. We won’t break down if we overdo it a bit. We are strong, resilient and adaptable. We WILL adapt in time.

Fatigue is not just physical. Habits, environment, emotions all effect how we feel.

When I did the Bridge 1.0, there were mornings I woke up and I felt like I didn’t want to move, let alone feel like I could PR.

I ended up taking a week off from training completely.

I learned that this was a mistake. By not training I was just becoming further detrained. I learned to have the discipline to just do the workout regardless of how I felt before starting.

I almost always was able to progress while still staying within the RPE prescription. Eventually my body got used to the training and while I still felt a bit tired sometimes, I realized that I was fine and my body could still perform. The fatigue was largely in my head.

Pain: Find an entry point to start building and adapting

I’m 43 and I’ve had my share of injuries and pains. One epiphany that I had from BBM was that for certain movements that I felt uncomfortable with, I was in a negative cycle of “I feel pain or awkward in this movement > avoid movement > leads to detraining and loss of strength > no activity to improve things or adapt > continue to avoid movement.”

I found that by committing to the templates, I was forced out of my comfort zone – because I have my biases and preferences like everybody else – to try some movements that I wasn’t sure about. I found an entry point by doing slow tempos of 3-1-3 for up to 10 reps. Gradually I reduced the tempo and increased the load.

Exercise substitutions and specialty bars

I use a SSB for most of my squats and a football bar (Rogue Multi-Press Bar) for most of my pressing. These bars are incredibly comfortable and can prevent a lot of overuse injuries. I recommend both!

When you do a template, there is no rule forcing you to use the exact exercise with the exact bar listed in the template. It’s just a template. You should modify the exercise selection if it helps you train with less pain or more enjoyment, etc.

RPE: We must protect the children from the dangers of RPE!

Read this and it’s up to you if you want to use RPE or another method: Mike Tuchscherer on Instagram: "Novices can use RPE fairly early on. OMG the number of y'all that want to "protect the children from teh evils of RPE" is annoying. You're COACHING PEOPLE. Coach them! Don't underestimate their intelligence. if there's a better tool for what you're trying to do, then great. But that's often not what I'm hearing. "But they might rate inaccurately!" So what? I promise it's not gonna break them or the program if it is really a 7 RPE but they call it a 6.5. And if you feel that strongly, then do some coach shit so they get better. But they might overshoot! Well heaven forbid. What a tragedy that must be. We wouldn't want lifters to show some guts and try to reach for an achievement would we? Would you avoid teaching a toddler to talk for fear of them using incorrect grammar? No. We teach kids to talk as early as we can. We accept some error in the beginning and don't expect it to be perfect from Day 1. We don't over-rely on them being accurate or precise. But we encourage them to practice. Then they gain precision and fluency as they go. Eventually they arrive at eloquence. But none of that happens without the initial effort. This is true of any skill. Riding a bike, learning to type, picking ripe fruit from the supermarket, cooking, playing scrabble, or woodworking... It is all probably ugly when you first start, then you get better. I don't understand why we make RPE training seem so difficult. It's not actually that hard to do."

Let us know how you make out!

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AJ, I appreciate the kind words, thank you so much! Keep us posted on how you do.

Kevin, thanks again.

You are a great advocate for the BBM “philosophy”, and I mean that in the most positive way! You make a good case!

Fatigue and motivation are never really a problem for me. I live and breathe working out. I don’t have nearly as much to show for it as others relative to the time I’ve put in, but it’s still something I’m passionate about. I can mentally fight through fatigue pretty easily. Aches & pains on the other hand…

The only time my motivation wanes is if I’m experiencing any persistent aches & pain that doesn’t seem to be subsiding. That will eventually de-motivate me. But it also forces me to make some adjustments to my program.

Thinking more about it, I kind of employ my own “RPE system” in a way. I have set up my program to be very flexible in terms of when I workout. So for example, earlier this year, I was working out every other day. This proved to be too much, as some of the aches & pains that had established themselves early on weren’t subsiding. So I inserted an additional “off day” between all workouts. My aches & pains then subsided, and I was able to remove some of those previously-inserted off days. So basically I “push” myself as much as I can in terms of workout density and squeezing all the workouts of a micro-cycle together, and when I really need an extra off day, I add it in. So I guess I really do a form of RPE, but on a macro level. But that RPE meme is pretty funny!

I did a DEXA scan in mid April 2021, and I’m planning to do another at the 1 year mark. I will also do a BodPod, as in the past, I have done both DEXA and BodPod at 1 year intervals to see what kind of progress I’ve made. So that’ll tell me how this particular self-designed program has worked. Going forward, I think I will do the DEXA and BodPod at 6 month intervals, as this will allow me to assess my programming quicker and make changes if progress isn’t where I want it to be. I also like doing both DEXA and BodPod, because if they agree with each other, I can be very confident that what they show is generally what actually took place. Like a couple years ago, tests 1 year apart, both showed approximately 5 lbs lean mass gain and 8 lbs fat loss. One showed like 5 and 8, and the other showed like 6 and 8, or something like that. Based on that, I was confident that I had gained at least a couple/few pounds of lean mass, and lost even more fat. And that matched my reality, as I was subjectively working pretty hard in the gym with a somewhat intelligent (I think) self-designed program, and the scale weight had dropped about 2 or 3 pounds over the course of that year.

I will definitely think about the BBM templates, pending how I feel early next year and what my body comp tests show in April.

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Brian, sounds good and good luck buddy!

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Thanks Kevin, and you as well!