Do I count the carbs of insoluble fiber coming from a 12g dose of psyllium husk?
If I am trying to balance my protein/carb macros, and I make a breakfast smoothie that looks like this- protein 51g, fat 13g, carbs (not counting psyllium husk) 71g, and fiber 21g, can I subtract the carbs from the fiber to get the effective carbohydrate dose (please say yes!). I don’t want to start cutting 5 servings a day of fruit out of my diet, and breakfast is the meal I want to hit that number, but it is hard to keep the carb numbers down while doing so.
Ok, I will just give these TBAB diet changes some time to work their way out at this slightly elevated carb level. As it stands, I am losing between .75-1 lb a week, and my strength gains are still coming on week 3 of the bridge (I am doing an extra day of conditioning, but I seem to have a fairly high work capacity from years of farm labor). As an aside, why the fiber-phobia? E.g., a Chipotle burrito with corn salsa and beans has 22g fiber, I believe. Is there an upper limit you would recommend for fiber intake?
Have you seen any of the latest human gut microbiome studies? The Handa people of Tanzania eat around 100g of fiber a day and have the most diverse gut flora in any measured population (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/357/6353/802)
Also, healthy aging studies- https://psychcentral.com/news/2016/06/02/high-fiber-diet-strongly-tied-to-healthy-aging/104131.html Out of all the variables that we looked at, fiber intake, which is a type of carbohydrate that the body can’t digest, had the strongest influence,” said lead author Associate Professor Bamini Gopinath, Ph.D., from the Westmead Institute’s Centre for Vision Research. “Essentially, we found that those who had the highest intake of fiber or total fiber actually had an almost 80 percent greater likelihood of living a long and healthy life over a 10-year follow-up. That is, they were less likely to suffer from hypertension, diabetes, dementia, depression, and functional disability.”
As an aside, why the fiber-phobia? E.g., a Chipotle burrito with corn salsa and beans has 22g fiber, I believe. Is there an upper limit you would recommend for fiber intake?
I’m not fiber phobic, but I don’t think there are benefits to eating in such a way that results in ultra high fiber intakes. Also, I built that burrito on Chipotle’s website and only got 18g. It also has > 900 calories. Probably not the best idea for most folks trying to lose weight so…
Have you seen any of the latest human gut microbiome studies? The Handa people of Tanzania eat around 100g of fiber a day and have the most diverse gut flora in any measured population (http://science.sciencemag.org/content/357/6353/802)
So, you’re suggesting that this is a good thing necessarily? They have a lower than average life expectancy compared to the rest of the world too. Meh.
“At 3 months, the total dietary fiber intake increased by 7.1 g/d (CI, 5.0 to 9.2 g/d) versus 2.7 g/d (CI, 0.5 to 4.8 g/d) among participants in the high-fiber and AHA diet groups, respectively.”
Just to be clear- this means that the AHA diet was eating less fiber than the high fiber group.
“At 12 months, mean change in weight was 2.1 kg (95% CI, 2.9 to 1.3 kg) in the high-fiber diet group versus 2.7 kg (CI, 3.5 to 2.0 kg) in the AHA diet group.” The lower fiber group lost more weight. Higher =/= better, though I do agree it’s a good general recommendation.
Out of all the variables that we looked at, fiber intake, which is a type of carbohydrate that the body can’t digest, had the strongest influence,” said lead author Associate Professor Bamini Gopinath, Ph.D., from the Westmead Institute’s Centre for Vision Research. “Essentially, we found that those who had the highest intake of fiber or total fiber actually had an almost 80 percent greater likelihood of living a long and healthy life over a 10-year follow-up. That is, they were less likely to suffer from hypertension, diabetes, dementia, depression, and functional disability.”
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Right, but that doesn’t mean eat 100g of fiber per day either.
Yeah, I see your point, I wasn’t trying to suggest that eating fiber is a panacea, and the fiber phobia was just an irresistible alliteration, you are the only figure within any strength training community who firmly advocates for fiber as a cornerstone of proper nutrition, for which you deserve all credit due (part of why your caution about fiber intake was surprising to me). I do want to push back slightly on the notion that more does not equal better.
In the diet study, people ate whatever the hell they wanted in the high fiber group. Are there other studies which show general weight loss in populations who continue on with their current diet while reducing fiber intake? On those grounds you would say that more does equal better. I don’t think anyone would defend the assumption that people eating cheesecake all day while taking fiber supplements would be maximizing the value of their dietary potential for weight loss. In my n=1, I was able to gain roughly 20 pounds during a GOMAD LP while keeping my fiber intake in the range of 40-50g/day, and am now losing weight by cutting back fat significantly and carbs modestly*.* And I have no idea how the Handa maintain such a high level of fiber intake, but it is a bit of a low blow to call out a traditional lifestyle group for their lower lifespan, given the circumstances of their existence. We may discover that 20-30g a day is sufficient to produce the beneficial changes in the microbiome, along with the healthy aging indicators, but data is emerging that is trending towards highest daily fiber intake as a guideline. The burrito thing was just cherry-picking a random example of a fairly normal meal with ~20g fiber.
I realize that the science of the human gut microbiome is still in its infancy, and probably doesn’t have a whole lot to do with strength training, so if we agree to disagree its no problem for me. Are there any known risks associated with higher or very high fiber intake?
The above study also has a cool flow chart, if you’re into that kind of thing, too.
Okay. I will firmly say that based on present evidence, more fiber =/=, but rather there is a threshold for the positive benefits of fiber to be realized and above that it’s not more beneficial.
In the diet study, people ate whatever the hell they wanted in the high fiber group. Are there other studies which show general weight loss in populations who continue on with their current diet while reducing fiber intake?
Yes, and there are studies showing weight loss on very low fiber diets, though again this wouldn’t be my preferred management. Additionally, on a population level I do think recommending most people increase fiber to 30-35g/day is reasonable. Recommending “As much as possible” is both nebulous and not evidence based.
On those grounds you would say that more does equal better.
No I woul not.
I don’t think anyone would defend the assumption that people eating cheesecake all day while taking fiber supplements would be maximizing the value of their dietary potential for weight loss. In my n=1, I was able to gain roughly 20 pounds during a GOMAD LP while keeping my fiber intake in the range of 40-50g/day, and am now losing weight by cutting back fat significantly and carbs modestly*.* And I have no idea how the Handa maintain such a high level of fiber intake, but it is a bit of a low blow to call out a traditional lifestyle group for their lower lifespan, given the circumstances of their existence.
A blow to whom and in what regard? If you’re using that as a citation to suggest eating more fiber is healthy above the current RDI then evaluating evidence purported to show that needs to be done. That’s what I did.
We may discover that 20-30g a day is sufficient to produce the beneficial changes in the microbiome, along with the healthy aging indicators, but data is emerging that is trending towards highest daily fiber intake as a guideline. The burrito thing was just cherry-picking a random example of a fairly normal meal with ~20g fiber.
We first need to find out what changes in the biome do what reliably across populations. We aren’t there yet.
I realize that the science of the human gut microbiome is still in its infancy, and probably doesn’t have a whole lot to do with strength training, so if we agree to disagree its no problem for me. Are there any known risks associated with higher or very high fiber intake?
Yes. In some populations there has shown an increase amount of cellular mutations in the cells of the GI tract (without increase in cancer or precancerous lesions, however), increased GI distress and/or pain, to name a few
The above study also has a cool flow chart, if you’re into that kind of thing, too.
From the study:
The average fiber intake of adults in the United States is less than half recommended levels and is lower still among those who follow currently popular low-carbohydrate diets, such as Atkins and South Beach. Increasing consumption of dietary fiber with fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and legumes across the life cycle is a critical step in stemming the epidemic of obesity found in developed countries. The addition of functional fiber to weight-loss diets should also be considered as a tool to improve success.
There is no data cited or suggested in the paper supporting “eating as much fiber as possible” or even eating above the current RDI.
I really appreciate the time you have taken to tease this out with me doctor, but I believe this may be an example of picking at nits when I think that we basically agree that people don’t generally eat enough fiber, and that there is a yet to be established sweet spot that lies somewhere in the range of 2-3 times what people eat in the U.S. on average (IIRC, its 15g) which will result in better health metrics, so I will simply thank you for your advice and expertise! A few grams of fiber is hardly the hill that I want to die on!
If you have any concerns with my personal diet, I have much lower adherence (as a former vegetarian) to eating flesh if I become constipated, and I have found through trial and error that satiety and G.I. issues are a problem I experience occasioned by too little fiber, not too much. If I had to hazard a guess, I would say that perhaps my microbiome is accustomed to a large quantity of fuel, but it wasn’t something that I imposed on the system overnight.
Thanks again for everything, really loving the Bridge! Hard to tease out why, but it has done wonders for the little bit of golfer’s elbow and knee pain I had picked up on my LP, and e1RMs a marching forward steadily.
Well, if you’re suggesting that the average American should eat more fiber to obtain ~35g/day then sure I’d agree. However, suggesting that more than that is beneficial in a dose-dependent manner is what I disagree with. To be very clear, I do not think that more fiber= better in all cases and that above 35g/day I don’t think there are any benefits.
