Training Frequency & Volume (hypertrophy vs. strength)

Training Q&A [Moderated]
, ,
1

Hi all,

I am curious if you notice a difference in how much volume/frequency you can train when doing a hypertrophy block versus a powerlifting/strength block. I recently, at 44, switched to bodybuilding style training becuase quads, delts/tris, and back were limiting my SBD (need more leverage at 185-190lbs at 5’11).

That said, I noticed within 2 weeks I had increased fatigue/lethargy, poor sleep, etc. I noticed doing low to moderate volume with lots of rest between sets with 2-3 RIR during powerlifting let me lift 6 days a week. But doing bodybuilding with 0-1 RIR, 60-90s rest between sets, higher rep sets, and more volume overall - the 5 days a week of 3 on 1 off, repeat (PPL) - seems to be killing me. Maybe it is as simple as adding more calories/carbs but I am going to do a 1-2 week deload then 4 days a week of upper/lower with 8-12 sets a week.

Caveat - I did slowly add 20 minutes of zone 2 aerobic work a few days a week, where I didn’t do that during powerlifting blocks.

Curious your experiences here!

1 Like
2

Interesting questions. I have a few thoughts regarding some of the underlying assumptions and your questions.

First, I agree that long-term strength increases benefit (if not require on some level) an increase in muscle size. That muscle needs to be coordinated specifically to the desired task (SBD) in order to improve performance, however, which means that most of the hypertrophy-specific training probably should resemble that task. In other words, I wouldn’t expect leg extensions or lateral raises to do much for the squat or bench press. We address this in our strength programs by including “sticking point” training, which allows the user to select between “muscle” or “technique” based issues for each lift.

Next, frequency is mostly a tool for distributing training load. You can (theoretically) do the same amount of training spread across 2,3,4,5,or 7 days. In this view, frequency is not really a determining factor for fatigue management, the training load is. If your training load went up too much, then you may need an accommodating period to get used to it.

I also don’t think that 60-90s rest between sets is good for hypertrophy, as the main factor for muscle growth is again training load. Resting that little tends to reduce reps completed as well as the weight.

So, I think the programming may need an adjustment here to suit your goals and needs.

-Jordan

4 Likes
3

Doc,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. You made a few points that made me rethink how I was framing this.

I agree that delts probably aren’t the limiting factor for my squat or bench. My thought on quads comes more from examples like Dan Green, who has spoken about using front squats and hack squats extensively to bring up his squat. Obviously technique and specificity still have to be there.

On frequency, would it be fair to say that while weekly training load is probably the primary driver of accumulated fatigue, frequency still influences how that fatigue is distributed? Two programs with identical weekly volume may not feel equally recoverable because session length, exercise selection, proximity to failure, and frequency all change the pattern of fatigue accumulation, even if the total workload is similar. Or do you think frequency itself has very little independent effect once those variables are accounted for?

Part of why I ask is that, for me, four lifting days consistently seem easier to recover from than six, even when weekly volume is similar. My limiting factor rarely feels like local muscle recovery. It feels more like overall recovery.

The other piece that has me scratching my head is my training history. From roughly 2004 to 2017 I trained mostly powerbuilding and later structured powerlifting (worked with Mike Zourdos and Mike Tuchscherer), did very little aerobic work, and generally tolerated training well. In 2017-2018 I trained for a half marathon, lost about 20-30 pounds, experienced a major life stressor around the same time, and since then I’ve had intermittent periods where higher training loads seem to produce insomnia, lightheadedness, elevated heart rate, digestive issues, and what feels like poor exercise tolerance.

Since then, lower-volume powerlifting has generally remained well tolerated, whereas higher-volume bodybuilding, especially with short rest periods and the recent addition of Zone 2 cardio, seems much harder for me to recover from.

My current thought is to back off to a four-day upper/lower split, use longer rest periods, keep weekly volume moderate, add carbohydrates and calories, keep aerobic work mostly easy (Zone 1 with limited Zone 2), and then gradually increase volume as tolerated rather than trying to force a PPL schedule.

Does that seem like a reasonable way to think about it, or would you still view total weekly training load as overwhelmingly more important than frequency in a case like this?

FYI - i have seen different doctors and done various tests and everything comes back normal. Sometimes it feels like in 2018 I experienced a trauma/stress induced RED-S or Overtraining Syndrome and i’ve been sensitized to this since then.

4

I appreciate how carefully you’re thinking about this. Let me take frequency first, then the history, because they connect.

On training frequency, you’ve mostly answered your own question. Once you account for training load, frequency by itself does very little. Frequency itself can alter training load, where lower frequency tends to reduce the volume and weight due to less of the training being done “fresh”, though there’s certainly individual variation here.

I don’t know that you need more energy or less training load necessarily, as I wonder what the programming changes alone would do. Push Pull Legs is a fine split, though it can be programmed 1000 different ways.

I don’t think you’re permanently sensitized, but I do think the programming needs to be changed, and I do like the idea of more z1-2 conditioning.

1 Like
5

Thanks a ton doc! Will lower the volume and see if I can slowly reduce the sensitivity of my nervous system. Not sure it is hugely relevant, but i do have signifcant childhood trauma - and always felt that my capacity for exertion was significanlty impaired compared to peers, which always drew me to sports like Track and Field (sprints/jumps) and then powerlifting in my 30s (now 40s). Genetics and environment may mean that including cardio and bodybuilding together leads to major issues unless i do super low volume at first.

6

Reducing volume is one option, though I’d favor reducing intensity (lower RPE), skipping interval training for now, and lowering metabolic demands (keeping rest periods > 2-3 minutes) in RT first given what you described so far.

While I do believe that chronic stress, including from early life, can shape sleep, resting heart rate, and how hard a given effort feels, I’m not of the mind that it permanently messes with your training tolerance. Tolerance for training is trainable, the same way strength is IMO.

I think you’re likely able to tolerate conditioning + bodybuilding just fine, but the programming should be individualized to you, same as we’d do for anyone else!

-Jordan

1 Like
7

Thanks doc! You’re the man!

Channing Tatum: You're The Man Fist Bump

1 Like