Hi,
I’m currently closing in on my 2-year mark of consistently working out. In August my sleep quality has decreased drastically, I wake up most mornings tired. I doubt I have sleep apnea, I fall well within the normal limit of all the parameters BBM usually references (BMI, waist circumference, etc). I’ve become a light sleeper for some reason and often wake up throughout the night unable to go back to sleep right away. I’ve been maintaining my weight (170lbs) but have been getting weaker on my bench press. This is surprising as some of my other lifts (squat, deadlift) have been increasing, OHP has remained the same but my bench has gotten weaker. In August I was re-running the Powerbuilding 2 program (I enjoyed it for the most part). My bench had gotten stagnant but I kept through with the program. Out of all my lifts I’ve enjoyed benching the most and therefore would like to see improvement in it.
At the start of October since I had been re-running Powerbuilding 2 a few times and I want to specifically increase my strength on bench, I began BBM’s Powerlifting program (I was introduced to the floor press and re-introduced to the touch-and-go bench). Surprisingly, my bench overload movement of floor press (I don’t have access to any of the other equipment to enable the overload for bench) is not heavier than my regular, competition bench. Also my touch and go bench press is also only 5lb heavier than my competition. I’ve made extra sure my competition bench has the 1-count with the bar no more in motion. My estimated 1RM for comp bench in July was 209lbs (180 for a triple @RPE 8). On the new program my e1RM comp bench has been: week 1 = 200, week 2 = 203, week 3 = 200, week 4 = 195 and this week 5 = 191.
These are just the weeks of my current program, I’ve been steadily declining on my e1RM on bench since August. My eating has not changed. I’ve worked on everything I can regarding my sleep issues but unfortunately for now it remains problematic. I’m puzzled as to how none of my other lifts are also effected by it. I’m wondering whether that suggests rather than systemic fatigue, there’s something improper specific to my bench training. Qualitatively I’m not enjoying benching for some reason, warm ups feel hard and the sets working with 76-79% of my day’s e1RM feel too taxing. I feel fatigued and unready to bench again on my next training days. Instinctively I want to drastically reduce my bench volume and load for 2 or 3 weeks but since that would technically be de-training, I imagine my bench would just get even weaker. I’d like to know what your thoughts are on this and how I should approach this. Thanks for your time.
T,
Thanks for the post. I think it is unlikely you have overtraining syndrome given your squat and DL are increasing alongside overtraining never really being described from resistance training. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible of course, but I don’t favor it. It’s also not unusual that your touch and go bench to be close or even lower than a paused bench. My paused “comp” bench is higher than my touch and go bench, for example. I would not expect floor press to be heavier than your regular bench when you first start training it. For example, my heaviest floor press work this past meet prep was like 350 x 5, which is less than I do on regular bench.
Low energy availability is unlikely given the steady weight, but perhaps a localized one with carbohydrates if you’re on a low carbohydrate diet. I think non functional overreaching is more likely.
A few questions. Have you ever maxed your bench press? If so, when was it and how’d it go? Additionally, do you have a video of you hitting a recent set @ 8?
Functional overreaching is when fatigue generated are higher than fitness adaptations using training specific to the goals, but resolve in a short period of time (days to weeks) leading to more fitness adaptations. I am not sure that’s what you’re experiencing, rather non-functional overreaching (using non specific training) would be my guess.
Yes, by maxed out I was referring to 1 @ 10. I have little to add on your bench without seeing the set, though the feeling tired thing is interesting, I’ll admit. You’d expect something like illness or overtraining syndrome (I don’t think this exists in resistance training) to be systemic and apply to more than just one movement, which doesn’t seem to be the case.
I like board presses for overload bench without equipment. You can use a towel rolled up under your shirt for this. A 5cm rolled up towel would be ~ 2 board and 7cm rolled up towel would be ~ 3 board.
Would it be functional if we were talking about a specific movement (eg. pause bench) and that same movement was hampered by the fatigue accumulating faster than the fitness adaptations? If my predicament is the non-functional overreaching, is there some time period you’d expect it to resolve in?
In general, yes.
What can I do to eliminate it?
Give it more time or reduce training stress. This all assumes the decrease or flatness is true. You don’t have a max to really go from, which can be an issue.
Not knowing your max is problematic because I don’t know if your performance is going up or plateauing. Your e1RM is staying the same which is a proxy of that, but without heavy circa maximal singles, there’s a decent chance you are getting stronger. You are not estimating your max at all, as the e1RM is a function of the calculator. I do agree that I would prefer people undershoot their work in general, so long as they are not going to get caught up in a flat e1RM trend. That said, undershooting can make it appear like the e1RM is flat.
If we assume strength increases occur every ~ 3 to 4 weeks in a person of your training status on a well-suited program, there’s going to be a decent amount of flatness in the program. I don’t think you should reduce training at all. Then again, I still don’t have a video, a max, or really any more information about what you’re doing activity-wise in addition to the program, extra-gym stress, etc. Those things would be more suited to a consultation, but all this is to say, my gut instinct here is to not change anything. The overreaching I suspect you’re doing through is due to getting a bit too close to failure +/- other training you’re doing given your report on bench press. It could be that the program is poorly suited to you, of course.
For clarity on the linked post, that was 6 years ago and my thoughts surrounding deloads and programming have evolved a bit. That said, lots of things improve recovery without detraining. For example, more training improves recovery by generating less fatigue relative to fitness adaptations via the processes underlying accommodation, e.g. less muscle damage, attenuated force production drop off, etc.
I do not think any of this applies to you. I think your bench strength is pretty much unchanged over the last few weeks. I am wondering what program you’re doing specifically, as PB II does not program any priority bench sets between 76 and 79% e1RM. Rather, the programmed back off sets are 75% x 4 reps (should be RPE 6 or so) in the first block and then you get some singles in the second block.
Tyronitar,
Powerlifting II is about as bench-specific of a program as we get, given that it’s made for SBD increases. A 1 @ 8 set would be fine to review, though I don’t think you should likely change the program anyway. Rather, I think a form check + practical strategies for attacking the back off sets at 75% in a way that feels less daunting would be useful to you.
GL on the sub I.
-Jordan
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I have no concerns with some soreness here and there, particularly with a new program. I agree that someone should not feel particularly wiped out after a normal training session. Unfortunately, I am not quite sure what you mean when you say you fatigue more quickly now and have less energy for your back off sets. I know you had mentioned this above, but I am unclear as to what this means. Does it mean that you’re able to do less reps with a similar relative load than before? Does it mean that your session RPE ratings are going up a lot? If so, those things would suggest a few possibilities, e.g. the training stress is too high for your current fitness and environment or some sort of physical stressor like illness, low energy availability, or similar is manifesting. I do not think this is what’s happening.
Rather, the 185 bench you posted here seems in line with your reported e1RM’s without any evidence that your performance is markedly reduced. Same thing with the back-off set. There are some form tweaks I’d likely make in the quest for efficiency, e.g. wider grip, not pressing the bar straight into the rack, + shoulder retraction prior to each rep. However, these sets do not really show anything particularly weird.
I would also advocate for a small Calorie surplus in the quest for improved strength here.
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I appreciate the kind words and your additional thoughts here. Some feedback to give you some direction going forward.
My overall assessment for the ~2 months on PL II is that your bench performance is about the same compared to PB II. For example, you likely did the 2ct paused bench free on PB II, but you’re never benching fresh in PL II as a method of simulating the demands of a PL meet in training. I don’t see a regression per se’, but to your point, not a real strength increase. I’d favor finishing PL II, especially if lower body training is going okay. That’ll give you a better baseline on what your strength actually is on bench and provide additional insight.
In any case, the continued feelings of soreness and fatigue alongside this stagnation 8 weeks in suggests to me that the total training stress may be a bit high for you on upper body training. I’d favor lowering RPE targets on all non single rep efforts by 2 for the next two weeks, then reassess. I may make an additional adjustment going into testing depending on how that goes. After testing, I’d then pick a program based on your responses to different strategies so far, goals, preferences, and resources.
In general, when I see no demonstrable improvement in strength in ~ 4 to 6 weeks AND some elements of too much training stress, e.g. soreness, fatigue, etc. then I favor reducing the stress. If no signs of excess stress, e.g. no soreness, motivation to train still high, well-rested, etc. then I favor upping the dose of training. There’s a longer form version of this in the low fatigue template’s ebook, but I think this is a good place to start.
-Jordan
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