Beginner Prescription Modification

Training Q&A [Moderated]
1

Hey docs,

Greatly appreciate your specific input on this forum and the detailed info you guys put out on podcasts and in articles. Have learned a boatload over the last few months.

As a continuation of previous threads, I wanted to ask a more specific programming question rather than just a “what do”.

Short summary:
I’ve had a number of recently occuring pains/“injuries” the last 6 months and can’t seem to complete templates without issue, noting – at least recently, at least in present life circumstances involving suboptimal sleep, and decently difficult intermittent/frequent physical work – that even minorly overshooting RPE 8 sets seems to lead to a solid amount of fatigue and resulted in the onset of new pains each time.

Would it make sense to iteratively modify the Beginner Prescription when I’m finished rehab work to attempt volume-equated lower RPE work?
I.e. rather than Phase 1’s “continue til it stops working” week of 2x RPE 8 sets, doing 1x RPE 8 and 2x set of 4 with the same weight, or 1x 7, then increase and do 4x set of 4 at i.e. RPE 5 or 6.

I’m not sure why this is, but a true RPE 8 feels inappropriately difficult, particularly repeat sets over weeks.

Coming at this from the angle of Dr. Baraki’s recommendation to tweak programs to find what works better, as well as the material from DDS/the podcasts on this topic. The reason I’m uncertain is because Jordan has previously mentioned that maintaining the RPE prescriptions in the program was important for novices, but I could be missing context here.

Of course, as life circumstances change and favour training more, I could simply adjust back to more normal parameters.

Background observations for context.
In the longterm:
-Have always had trouble sticking to prescribed intensity on programs, even those individualized/periodized by supervising strength coaches
-The programs I’ve responded best to have involved a “greasing the groove” type of approach, or better yet, a more sets+rest program at lower RPE, but that was coming off a few years’ training, so unsure how it would be now.

TL;DR: Is it inadvisable for a “beginner” or someone coming off rehab to apply the lower RPE approach as detailed by yourselves and Data Driven Strength?

The way training has largely gone the last few months (other than the knee rehab component) has been a significant life hindrance and I can’t afford to allow it to continue to be.

Thanks again for your patience and invaluable info.

Rohann

2

I’m not sure why this is, but a true RPE 8 feels inappropriately difficult.

Coming at this from the angle of Dr. Baraki’s recommendation to tweak programs to find what works better, as well as the material from DDS/the podcasts on this topic. The reason I’m uncertain is because Jordan has previously mentioned that maintaining the RPE prescriptions in the program was important for novices, but I could be missing context here.​

I feel like we’ve addressed this before, but it does not matter what Jordan has mentioned regarding beginners, if you can’t tolerate that specific kind of training setup.

-The programs I’ve responded best to have involved a “greasing the groove” type of approach, or better yet, a more sets+rest program at lower RPE, but that was coming off a few years’ training, so unsure how it would be now.

You have made important observations about your own training history & tolerance. Use them. It does not make sense to keep running into a wall training in a way that you do not tolerate.

If you want to use any of the templates, that’s fine – but adjust them to be more in line with this approach. For example, dropping all RPE targets by 1-2 points across the board, or breaking up the total number of work reps into smaller sets. Either could be options, and I have no strong preference or bias among the two, as there is no way to predict how you’ll respond to them. Try it and see what happens. You could even drop the RPE targets and reduce the total amount of working volume, to make sure you tolerate it first, before increasing – and only increasing if needed.

1 Like
3

Thanks, and apologies, don’t mean to beat a dead horse.

Your advice to drop RPE targets and some volume for shoulder pain specifically has definitely helped, I just wasn’t sure how to apply that intelligently in the context of a whole program. The podcasts have given me a much better base to work from, but Jordan had also mentioned that “non-responders” occasionally need more volume, so was mostly wondering if there was a better option (in the context of being pain-free rather than rehab). Thanks though, will do. For the time being I’d prefer to run templates to have some sort of intelligent “guide” present, but will experiment with this and potentially just extend weeks.

You had previously mentioned you occasionally include single-joint “rehab” movements in some programs, at the end of workouts or on GPP days. Would you say doing this once a week is probably sufficient, such as when coming off the knee rehab template or similar? Staggered in such a way to avoid overlap.

i.e. GPP day 1: Arms, reverse nordics, ab wheel rollouts
GPP day 2: Reverse hypers, Copenhagen adductor, shoulder-something-or-other, etc.

4

And this is a level of individualized programming advice that isn’t easily done via the forum.

There is not one consistent adjustment that will reliably turn a “non-responder” into a responder. For many, yes, increasing training volume may be helpful. But this is not universal. For others, apparent “non-response” may be due to lifestyle factors, inadequate sleep, poor nutrition, or any number of other variables. This is where consultation/coaching can be helpful to work through things, if someone is unable to troubleshoot on their own.

1-2x per week would be fine to start with.

1 Like
5

Definitely, was mostly wondering if using this as a global strategy would be unproductive at a given level of experience. The podcasts and papers have helped me understand the bird’s-eye view and the logic behind it, so I have something to run with for a while.

There is not one consistent adjustment that will reliably turn a “non-responder” into a responder. For many, yes, increasing training volume may be helpful. But this is not universal. For others, apparent “non-response” may be due to lifestyle factors, inadequate sleep, poor nutrition, or any number of other variables. This is where consultation/coaching can be helpful to work through things, if someone is unable to troubleshoot on their own.

1-2x per week would be fine to start with.

Fair points! I have a bigger toolbag now so have some more strategies to try in addition to getting some consult help on the rehab/rehab programming front. Looking forward to trying this. Thanks again!