Bulk or cut?

Hi Jordan

i am 165 cm and weigh 60.5 kg. 29 years old.

I have been gaining weight from 56 kg while training for hypertrophy for 6 months — 4 of those suboptimal since I have been travelling non stop in a different continent, switching gyms constantly, unable to track my food intake or my bodyweight closely plus dealing with much stress affecting my sleep and nutrition. I don’t primarily train for strength, but in this period I saw my lifts stagnate or even worsen a bit since training was on the back burner.

Now, in the last 2 months I have settled in one place and dialed in on my training and it has been going well — lifts have been going up slowly but steadily and I’m getting real momentum with good pumps etc. But I also think that those 4 months prior have been bad for my progress since I have gained weight but not a really large amount of muscle mass. I’m not so confused as to why considering all of the issues mentioned above.

But I am wondering if a little diet phase is warranted. I train only for aesthetic reasons and while I don’t hate my body right now, I am worried that, if I continue gaining, I will get to a point very soon where it will take ages to diet off love handles etc.

Now that I am settled in one place and have found a good rhythm with my training, I was thinking to lose a bit of weight and start over — this time stress free and with plenty of time to focus on my training and track my nutrition.

but I am really bad at gauging my own body and would like to get a second opinion.

this is me now (unflexed, flexed, morning without pump)

this was me at 56 kg:


what do you think?

thanks

I think that if you can train and eat consistently - both RT and AT- over the next 6 months or so, I’d aim for a slow increase in BW (like 1 to 2kg tops). I would not cut in this situation, but that’s just me.

Ok. Thank you for the recommendation.

Just two questions:

  1. what does RT and AT mean?

  2. while I understand that you would not recommend a cut — if I were to run one anyway, would you in my situation prefer a short but aggressive one (4-6 week mini cut) to make more room for weight gain right after, or would you opt for slower (6-8 weeks)? Or would you not really care?

Right now it feels counter intuitive to eat a lot of food because I already feel like I am fatter than what I would like to be. I am pretty motivated to diet so I feel like I could take advantage of that. My plan would be to get around a level of body fat where I can at least see my abs somewhat clearly and then take a slower approach to weight gain since I am now in place where I can train and track consistently

Opf,

RT stands for resistance training (lifting weights) and AT stands for aerobic training (conditioning). You’ll need to do both.

I would absolutely not recommend a short aggressive cut for you. It will not promote improved weight gain after- but rather more fat gain. In any case- if you were to cut (which you shouldn’t)- you’ll need a 4 to 6 week weight maintenance period following it. One last time…don’t cut.

I’m not asking you to eat a lot of food, rather a modest increase (a hundred or so Calories) above maintenance and actually train. You don’t have to take this advice, but that’s what I’d do.

Ok, understood. And just so we’re on the same page — why would a cut not be recommended seeing that I carry quite a lot of fat? And why would a recommend be needed in case I did cut?

Jordan, can you say more about your reasoning behind having such a strong recommendation for the OP to not cut? Usually you tend to be ambivalent or say it’s up to the person’s preferences. What is it about this case that makes you have a strong recommendation?

You don’y carry “quite a lot of fat”, but rather not a lot of muscle. The recommendation to not cut is to save you the next 5 + years of toiling away getting zero results from your training and still not achieving an appreciable amount of muscle mass.

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See above. He’s an adult and can do what he likes of course.

i don’t see how taking 6 weeks to cut before then starting to gain slowly would cost me 5+ years of not getting results? I’m really just trying to understand the logic behind your recommendation which is quite hard when you don’t explain it. I understand that you’re supplying help for free and are not obligated to anything, but I feel like it would make the process of me understanding your advice easier if and faster if you were to walk me through your logic. What I hear from most, like Eric helms and Israetel, is that it’s up to the individual to decide whether to bulk or cut first. I know you say that I don’t have to follow your advice, and I do know that, but I am interested in hearing your advice and reasoning behind

Also, why would it make a significant difference to gain 1-2 kg before cutting rather than just cutting now and then gaining more — a process that would probably leave me feeling a lot less concerned with my body fat levels. And I’ll have to cut eventually anyway. I’m really not trying to second guess, just asking questions trying to understand where you are coming from so I can understand what the logical arguments for and against a cut/bulk would be.

Because you’re just repeating the same thing you’ve been doing your entire training career, which hasn’t paid off yet. There are no benefits to dieting first in your case except for maybe being leaner, but you don’t really have much muscle to reveal and you’re not carrying a high amount of body fat. Then there’s the necessary maintenance period…idk man, you can do what you like. You’re an adult.

I didn’t recommend a cut at all. I think you should train appropriately, gain muscle slowly, get stronger, and develop a healthier relationship with your body image.

Alright then. You have convinced me. Where do you speculate that I will be, body composition wise, in six months if I follow this advice of gaining slowly (maybe 100 cal surplus) - I’m assuming in a better place since you would not recommend a cut. I would just be afraid that I would end up with even more body fat and maybe just a little bit of muscle that won’t be noticeable. What would be the next step from there?

Currently, at 60 kg bw, I bench 80 kg for 8 reps, high bar squat 80 kg for 8 reps, RDL 80 kg for 10 reps. I can do about 15 pull ups. I train in moderate rep ranges (not super low, not super high) and don’t care much about the numbers, only try to make sure that they are going up steadily (which they have in the past two months but not much in the 4 months before that due to the circumstances I mentioned in the beginning). I focus on very strict technique.

Regarding your comment about body image, I would like to add for context that I came into lifting about 8 years ago with no knowledge or experience, and I stumbled upon Starting Strength and the ‘eat more to break through plateaus’-philosophy which got me a lot stronger than I am now but also really fat - I weighed about 78 kg and did not look good at all. I looked less muscular than I do now even though my lifts were much higher. I was blinded by the numbers going up on the bar and didn’t even noticed that I was getting fat. Suddenly I ‘woke up’ and had to go through a massive fat loss phase and when I look at pictures from back then now I cringe a little.

Now, I have a hard time trusting my own ability to judge body fat and that may be why I err on the side of caution - I don’t want to end up fat again.

Ideally your energy surplus leaves you ~ 2kg heavier in 4 to 6 months at a similar, if not improved, body composition.

I would do one of our templates (or similar) for posterity. I can appreciate that you came from SS and some of its negative potential. I absolutely would not recommend rapid weight gain for anyone at nearly any time.

OK - and since you are not recommending a cut once I have gained that weight which will, at best, leave me at a slightly improved body composition (but likely similar), when and how do I actually improve my aesthetics - my main goal for lifting in the first place?

I’m not sure if there is a piece to your puzzle that I’m not seeing or if you, coming from a powerlifting and health POV, simply believe that I should learn to be content with not really looking like I lift since aesthetics is beyond the scope of Barbell Medicines services?

That is absolutely fair but I’m just trying to figure out if we are talking past each other