So about a week ago, I’ve been dealing with some kind of elbow & anterior delt stiffness - to be honest, I’m not sure if that’s the correct word but to describe in-depth, it’s not really painful per se (I can still squat & bench heavy as in 75% to 1RM heavy) but I definitely feel the discomfort on my elbows & anterior delts whenever I’m benching. As for squats, I only feel the discomfort on my elbows.
I think the main reason is because I’ve been running programs and training cycles back-to-back since April without any light week/deload in-between. As far as the program goes, I did LP and currently running an intermediate program.
Last session was last Friday and after that, I completely took a break from lifting. Went to the gym last night and did a super light bench session (70% of 1RM) and I still felt the discomfort so after the bench session, I just went back home.
Any advices would be greatly appreciated and thanks for taking your time reading this - I know it was long but figured I should be as detailed as possible.
Sounds like your program may be a bit too much of a training load for you right now. How does it feel when you go lighter via increased reps, adding a tempo component, etc.? Are you doing any direct triceps work? Also, I’d want to know what program you are running? I have concerns if it’s similar to LP…
Pending your answers here, I may be able to provide some guidance. If more direct, specialized guidance is needed, a consultation with our pain and rehab staff may be valuable.
First & foremost, thank you for the quick response. As for your questions, after my most recent heavy bench session (which was last Friday), the only bench session I did was yesterday for 3x3 @ 70% of 1RM - my current PR for 1RM is 275 lbs so I did 190 lbs which is 70% of that.
Speaking of direct tricep work, yes, I do them (4 different exercises, 3 of them on cables and 1 on the smith machine) in various rep ranges (5-8, 12-15, 15-20) and I only do 3 sets per week.
Programming wise, I’m currently running Starting Strength LP on my squats & rack pulls (not doing deadlifts as I just can’t get the form right due to my body anthropometry) and as for bench, I’ve been doing the 6-week bench program (conjugate style programming) from Andy Baker’s website. I’ve been running Andy’s bench program for 9 weeks now and the symptoms of slight discomfort started showing up around week 7 or so. I wouldn’t say it’s painful - I’m still able to push heavy weights on the 75%-1RM range. However, I’m definitely feeling some sort of discomfort whenever I’m benching or squatting.
I also incorporate hypertrophy training as well but nothing too excessive in terms of volume wise - 3 sets per week each muscle group (so 3 sets of chest, 3 sets of triceps, 3 sets of lateral delts, etc)
Figured I should provide some detail regarding Andy’s bench program as well: basically each week there’s a heavy day and a volume day.
On the heavy days, I do 1-rep max on bench and other bench variations (i.e. incline bench, close grip bench, floor press, etc) After the 1 rep max, I do one or couple back off sets at 90% of 1RM.
As for the volume days, I rotate between 10x3, 8x3 and finally 8x2 (that’s 10 sets of 3, 8 sets of 3, and 8 sets of 2 respectively)
So for example:
Week 1:
Bench day 1 (heavy day)
1x1 @ 225 lbs (1RM)
1x2-4 @ 90% of 1RM
Thanks for the additional detail. I feel more comfortable saying the current program is likely the culprit. I do not think maxing out weekly and doing back off sets at 90% routinely is advisable. I also don’t think LP for SQ and DL is a great idea.
My recommendation would be to change programs to something like our PPL-Powerbuilding or Powerbuilding I plan and be conservative with loading to start with. I suspect you’ll be able to get away without an extensive, specific rehab plan, which is nice. That said, I have concerns that you will need a significant break in "normal’ training if you continue on with the current programming.
I appreciate your answer. I’ll definitely look into those programs that you mentioned. For now, should I just take a break from lifting until my elbows gets better? If so, how long should the break be?
Also, in the meantime, was thinking of hitting legs with machines (i.e. leg extensions, leg curls, etc) that essentially doesn’t require my upper body at all. Would this be ok?
I would absolutely not recommend taking a break from lifting. This is one of the problems with the style of programming you’re running, there is no autoregulation for how you’re feeling and how you’re responding. I don’t mean to harp on this too much, but the programming selection really needs to change.
I also see no reason why you need to stop squatting or deadlifting, unless the only way you’re going to do so is by continuing to do LP. If that’s the case, I have no choice but to tell you to do other exercises because the programming is unlikely to allow your recovery.
In short, I would stop doing LP and Andy Baker’s Bench program, as both have serious limitations and are now likely causing your symptoms. I would strongly, strongly recommend increased exercise variation, rep scheme variation, not training so close to failure, and using some method of autoregulation. I suspect this would be sufficient to not only get past this issue, but also likely get stronger than you ever would using the correct approach. Lastly, I would not avoid deadlfiting from the floor given your anthropometry, though I would need to see it to weigh-in more confidently.
Thank you for the advice and no, you’re not harping on it at all - if anything, I truly appreciate that you’re taking your time responding and trying to help out.
I just applied for the barbell medicine coaching (programming option) so in the meantime while I wait, I’ll be going back to the gym tonight to do some hypertrophy work. Of course, like you suggested, I’ll not bother with LP & Andy Baker’s program any longer since I do not wish to get injured.
As for the conventional deadlift, I really don’t know what else to say here besides the fact that for the longest time, it’s been such a frustrating journey for me. I used to train and get coached at two different Starting Strength gyms for 3 years (Brent & Rippietoe coached me once as well) and even then, I barely made any improvements.
Eventually, they just had me doing rack pulls alternated with halting deadlifts and I made pretty good progress on it… so, I just stopped caring about deadlifts lol. Truth be told, I’ve never tried sumo and didn’t mind making the switch (if that’d suit me better for my build) but since I was training at a Starting Strength gym, that wasn’t an option.
It’d be really cool to nail down the form and perform the deadlift correctly so I can at least pull 500 lbs - even 405 lbs would be nice too.
I hear you and thanks for sharing. I suspect there’s some way for you to train pretty close to “normal” right now. I feel the same way about you being able to deadlift, though again, it’s hard to say without seeing it. I should also say that I’m not sure that there’s going to be much difference between rack pulls and sumo (if that’s the option that suits you best), but for whatever reason, I think there’s something awesome about being able to pull from the floor, you know?
I suspect our admin will get back to you shortly. In the interim, I’d consider something like the following given your history and symptoms:
Day 1:
1-arm triceps extensions, 3-0-3 tempo 12 reps @ RPE 7, 3 sets
High bar back squat- 4 reps @ 7, 68% e1RM x 5 x 3 sets
Press x 6 reps @ RPE 7. 70% e1rm x 4 x 3 sets
RDL (straps) x 6 reps @ 7 x 2 sets
Day 2:
Concentration curl 3-0-3 tempo 12 reps @ RPE 7, 3 sets
Bench press 4 reps @ 7, 70% e1RM x 5 x 3 sets
Leg Press 10 reps @ RPE 8. Repeat x 2 sets of 10
Incline Dumbbell Bench, 2-0-2 tempo- 10 reps @ RPE 7, repeat x 2 sets
Lat Pull Down, controlled tempo 8-12 reps @ RPE 7. Repeat x 2 sets of 8-12
Day 3:
Overhead triceps extension 3-0-3 tempo 12 reps @ RPE 7, 3 sets
Sumo DL- 4 reps @ 7, 68% e1RM x 5 x 3 sets
Incline Bench 8 reps @ RPE 7 x 3 sets
Split squat w dumbbells- 8-12 reps @ RPE 6. Repeat x 2 sets of 8-12
Yes, I totally agree with you - pulling from the floor is awesome, for sure. It’s truly been a long goal of mine to deadlift without any form breakdown. Frankly speaking, I don’t remember the last time I pulled anything above 275 lbs off the floor
Not sure why the other part didn’t get posted, but I just wanted to say thank you so much for the temporary split. Enjoy the rest of your weekend, Jordan!