Heart rate question

[tfranc]

Does training have a positive effect of max heart rate as we age? Or does max heart rate go down regardless of whether we train or not?

Thanks for your time

[Jordan_Feigenbaum]

Hey Tim,

Thanks for the question. I don’t think this is an either or thing as presented, as maximum attainable heart rate is both influenced by training and age. That said, I am curious what you have been able to find on this question so far and what affectI if any, this information will have on you or your training?

The ol’ Socratic method strikes again as it were.

-Jordan

[tfranc]

Thanks for your reply, was worried this would be an annoying question.

All I’ve found on this topic is that your max heart rate decreases with age, but no information about whether training has an effect on any decrease in max heart rate as you age.

None of this will effect my training since I plan on continuing to exercise either way. I just like the vain idea of training as a way to stay youthful lol. And I enjoy learning about this stuff​

[Jordan_Feigenbaum]

@tfranc

Thanks for your reply, was worried this would be an annoying question.

All I’ve found on this topic is that your max heart rate decreases with age, but no information about whether training has an effect on any decrease in max heart rate as you age.

None of this will effect my training since I plan on continuing to exercise either way. I just like the vain idea of training as a way to stay youthful lol. And I enjoy learning about this stuff​

It’s not an annoying question at all, but I will admit I do find it less interesting since it doesn’t change anything practically

Max HR declines with age, though higher levels of cardiorespiratory fitness slow down the reduction.

[quark]

Is it worth noting that the most used max HR formula is 220 minus age, which of course leads to calculated max HR declining with age?

[tfranc]

Right, good point. And it’s not like you can’t improve your fitness levels as you age, even as your max hr goes down, or that exercise magically has less benefit. Probably the opposite is true, right?

It’s amazing that exercise is so powerful, you can actually slow down the aging process of your heart.

[Jordan_Feigenbaum]

@quark

Is it worth noting that the most used max HR formula is 220 minus age, which of course leads to calculated max HR declining with age?

I’m not sure what the question is here, but that formula isn’t terribly accurate when measured against actual max HR.

[Jordan_Feigenbaum]

@tfranc

Right, good point. And it’s not like you can’t improve your fitness levels as you age, even as your max hr goes down, or that exercise magically has less benefit. Probably the opposite is true, right?

It’s amazing that exercise is so powerful, you can actually slow down the aging process of your heart.

I don’t think max HR indicates “aging” of the heart and yes, I think increased fitness levels are very important for individuals of all ages. Older individuals have a wider range of fitness compared to younger folks, which highlights the importance of exercise more readily in this cohort.

[Kaledrone]

@Jordan_Feigenbaum

Hey Tim,

Thanks for the question. I don’t think this is an either or thing as presented, as maximum attainable heart rate is both influenced by training and age. That said, I am curious what you have been able to find on this question so far and what affectI if any, this information will have on you or your training?

The ol’ Socratic method strikes again as it were.

-Jordan

Is strength and muscle mass influenced in the same way by age similar to maximum attainable heart rate? Or in that scenario is it completely a case of “use it or lose it”? From what I’ve seen there seem to be some incredibly strong masters powerlifters and strongmen such as David Ricks and Mark Felix, I haven’t seen cases like these in sports which may require high max HR such as endurance sports, or any sport outside the world of strength based sports for that matter.

[tfranc]

@Jordan_Feigenbaum

I don’t think max HR indicates “aging” of the heart

Oh gotcha, ok

@Jordan_Feigenbaum

​and yes, I think increased fitness levels are very important for individuals of all ages. Older individuals have a wider range of fitness compared to younger folks, which highlights the importance of exercise more readily in this cohort.

So interesting. Is this why “dad strength” is a thing?

Thanks for helping me understand this more clearly

[Jordan_Feigenbaum]

@Kaledrone

Is strength and muscle mass influenced in the same way by age similar to maximum attainable heart rate? Or in that scenario is it completely a case of “use it or lose it”? From what I’ve seen there seem to be some incredibly strong masters powerlifters and strongmen such as David Ricks and Mark Felix, I haven’t seen cases like these in sports which may require high max HR such as endurance sports, or any sport outside the world of strength based sports for that matter.

A bit to unpack here.

Muscle mass is not influenced by age in the same way as max HR, as exercise can both improve and preserve muscle mass (but not max HR).

There are likely more endurance athletes at similar ages to Felix and Ricks who perform to the same level against the open age group due to the popularity of endurance sports compared to PL and WSM. I don’t think the age distributions for competitive performance age in barbell sports vs endurance sports is much different. If it is, I don’t think it has anything to do with max HR.

[Kaledrone]

@Jordan_Feigenbaum

A bit to unpack here.

Muscle mass is not influenced by age in the same way as max HR, as exercise can both improve and preserve muscle mass (but not max HR).

There are likely more endurance athletes at similar ages to Felix and Ricks who perform to the same level against the open age group due to the popularity of endurance sports compared to PL and WSM. I don’t think the age distributions for competitive performance age in barbell sports vs endurance sports is much different. If it is, I don’t think it has anything to do with max HR.

Makes sense, thanks for the reply, informative and motivating.
I’ve got a few more questions related to this, hope it’s not too annoying, just trying to understand this better.

1. So basically, sarcopenia/strength and muscle loss are not inexorable parts of aging such as a decline in max hr might be

2. You said that there may be even more top athletes similar to Ricks’ age (60s) who stack up well against the open division in endurance sports due to higher popularity, so this means that endurance sports are not affected by a drop in max heart rate as much as most people think?

3. What did you mean when you mentioned in another reply that “Older individuals have a wider range of fitness compared to younger folks”, this question has more to do with me not understanding what you said due to English not being my first language more than anything else, so sorry about that.

4. You also mentioned that max HR does not indicate aging of the heart, why does it not? And what would theoretically indicate aging of the heart if anything?

[Jordan_Feigenbaum]

Kaledrone,

1. Correct.
2. Since endurance performance isn’t really limited by max HR and performance is multifaceted, I think so.
3. The range between the highest and lowest fitness levels in older folks is greater than that of younger. I think this is why we see older folks who are severely deconditioned to the point of needing assistance and others who are world class athletes.
4. I’m not sure I have a good answer for this without defining “aging” in some philosophical way. I don’t think I can do that.

-Jordan