Is my "eating disorder" coming out by asking this?....

Nutrition Discussion
,
1

My general make-up:

Male, 36 year old
6’1" 248 pounds
44.5" waist at umbilicus
Very early novice stage of training / Untrained
Generally healthy with exception of high triglycerides

My macro targets are as follow with aims of losing around 1 pound per week:

220g protein
250g carbs
75g fats

Total calories ~ 2555

I’ve lost around 10-11 pounds over the 5-6 weeks. My daily intake tends to fall more towards the 2100 range, so I’m at a bigger deficit than I would be at the above recommendation (as indicated by higher than expected rate of loss).


At the risk of being trolled, I have some questions about nutrition / eating healthier foods / hitting macros / etc.

About 5-6 weeks ago, for the first time ever, I began tracking my food intake on MyFitnessPal. The first 2 weeks were to just track what I typically ate without many changes aside from eliminating soft drinks. I had a typical American diet high in fat and sugar and low in protein. The last 3-4 weeks have been geared toward single ingredient foods with weight loss recommendations via TBAB.

Admittedly, I am not hitting my macros or daily caloric goals even after 3 weeks. I'm still short on protein (and carbs), and routinely over on fat. I use whey protein once per day (getting 30g protein in my serving). This is generally a meal replacement for breakfast along with some oatmeal, etc. Even after eating what I would consider a good serving of protein at lunch and dinner, I fall way short.

My main questions are:

1. How much whey protein are you typically taking in during an average day (how many grams of protein per serving, etc.)?
2. What amounts of animal protein are you eating with your meals? 4 ounces? 6 ounces? 8 ounces? etc.
3. How are you keeping fat grams so low? I eat almonds and/or peanut butter regularly as snacks, and they just blow up my numbers almost daily.


When I re-read and think about my own post, I think some of my bigger undertones are in the vein of WHAT are you eating to hit your numbers? I think most of us fall into a routine of what we eat, and it doesn't change that much. What's your daily intake look like? I tend to eat three meals a day with one or two small snacks in between.

An example....what are you eating for lunch? Are you always packing one or two chicken breasts (or how many ounces?) to hit high protein amounts, or are you throwing in more whey protein (e.g. more than once per day)? The idea of a big breakfast doesn't appeal to me....I start work at 6am, so I'm up super early and don't have means to cook anything after getting to work unless I've prepared it the night before. I can typically make more thoughtful choices around lunch and dinner.

Maybe my "eating disorder" isn't so much an actual compliance issue, but rather one of just not knowing what to eat from a practical standpoint. Progress has been made. I am happy to report that I am no longer eating junk. Sugar intake is way down. Fiber is up. Single ingredient foods for 80-90% of my diet. I'm just drawing a blank with WHAT to eat from a day in day out stand point.

Additional thoughts...
After viewing the BBM nutrition seminars on YT, I feel like I have an understanding of not having to eat copious amounts of animal protein (beyond say 90-120g for the entire day). As I understand it, eating around 30g of animal protein has enough leucine (~3g) to trigger MPS for each meal. I guess I am having a hard time getting additional protein via carbs and fat sources that get me up to 220g. Or rather, I'm having a hard time doing it proportionally while keeping fat intake down below 75-80g.

Help please!
Jordan
2

I’m of no help other than to say you are not alone. We are pretty similar in age and size, and I tried to follow pretty close to the macros that you are shooting for, and I couldn’t figure it out. I’m not a fan of the low fat sources of animal protien, specifically chicken breasts, they are too boring of a food for me. While it might not be optimal I did about 100g of protein from whey, a double in the morning and double in the afternoon/evening. Anytime I came close to my protein goal my fat was way over. I’m a life long poor eater and have a very tough time staying with any “diet” for any period of time. I guess if i wasnt i wouldnt find myself in this position, right? With the new research showing both the low carb and low fat diets to be equally successful, my wife and I are cycling those every 3 to 4 weeks, just to have variety in our diets. The only things I’m watching now are protein and the scale. It’s too soon to know if it’s working, but just another stab at what has been years of trying to eat better. Good luck.

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I’ve only been tracking my intake for about a month, but in my limited experience actually tracking macros, I can’t imagine trying to get 220g of protein on 2 meals plus a protein shake. I typically need to eat 3 meals with meat AND have a protein shake. To answer your questions

  1. I have 1 shake in an average day, typically ~30g whey
  2. Depends, I eat less for breakfast, probably 4oz breakfast, 6 at lunch, 6-8 for dinner.
  3. I used to eat ‘paleo’-ish. I eat a lot less nuts, nut butter, and bacon now, instead I eat more steak, lean roasts and rice.

Honestly, 220g of protein and only 80g fat seems like it would be really difficult to me. I would probably consume mostly lean meat, fruit, rice, maybe oatmeal, potatoes, green salads and protein shakes (probably made with skim milk or juice).

I leave early for work and often get home late - For breakfast I almost always have eggs. I can fry a couple eggs while I’m getting ready. Better yet, hard boil them or make an egg bake at the beginning of the week. I also typically have some meat - leftover beef roast, chicken breast, ham or low fat sausage (Beeler’s breakfast sausage is really good, and 3 links is 15g protein, 3.5g fat). I often put this in a tortilla for a breakfast burrito. I usually bring an orange or a banana for a morning snack - lots of carbs, virtually no fat.

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My lunch is typically leftovers or peanut butter sandwiches. If it doesn’t have 4+ oz of meat in it, I pound a scoop of whey with about 30g of protein. (drink it of course)

Jordan has said snacking is long term counterproductive towards caloric deficit goals, so I’d suggest you start by looking for strategies to adjust that.

Spitballed possible strategies:

  1. Add something casein rich to you breakfast, which might add to its longterm satiaty (I cook my oatmeal in skim milk instead of water),
  2. Eat 2 mid day meals spread out 3-5 hours with at least the minimum protein for that MPS trigger you mentioned
  3. Drink more water (That’s the Army vet in me talking, as that and Motrin are the fix for everything there it seems)
  4. Fiber rich snacks instead of fat rich. My first TBAB caloric deficit, I kept a box of All Bran Buds at my desk, and I also kept chopped up vegies when I was motivated to. General thoughts: Once you get below the 40" measurement, consider adjusting the deficit to maintain 1lb a week loss. Also, get to work on an NLP!
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There is a reason that the “chicken breast, brown rice, and broccoli” meal is such a cliche in the bodybuilding community. At 75g of fat per day you don’t have much room to wiggle around. I speak from experience in that i was doing 200g protein and 45g fat on many days until i wised up. You learn to avoid things like half & half in your coffee, and most red meats simply won’t be allowed. Sure, you could have a steak, but this means you’d need to hav tilapia or chicken breast for your other meals.

But to your original question. What sort of foods can help sustain a low fat diet? chicken breast, tilapia, cod, 90% ground beef, oatmeal, brown rice, vegetables, almond milk, almond butter, egg whites. That sort of thing.

  1. I do a whey shake (40g protein) per day. Thats about 22% of my daily protein goal. I’d be open to bumping that up to 44%.
  2. A couple, or triple fist sized meat portions
  3. How are you keeping fat grams so low? I’m not. I did the low-fat thing for so long that i’m trying out a high-fat diet and i’m perfectly happy with it. Maybe if i was doing the hypertrophy template i’d crash and burn but i’m doing bridge 2.0 and doing just fine with energy levels.
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Probably 25-50 grams, yielding probably 40 grams or so of protein

Enough to hit my macros. I aim for 30-40 3-4x per day. That will get me close enough to my goal which most days is 210. The other proteins usually come along for the ride in the carbs like oats, cereal, potatoes,etc.

You should probably just not eat those things or eat them less.

Lean meats, carbs and vegetables don’t have much fat in them unless you prepare them with an appreciable amount. I don’t usually eat a lot of nuts and such. I think most of my fat just comes along for the ride with what I usually eat. I’ll choose something higher fat maybe later in the day if I have the macros left.

7

Yeah, you gotta cut out those nuts. In general, when you’re shopping, find things with high fiber and/or low fat (or no fat) and try to buy only those things. If you target almost no fat, you’ll end up hitting your fat targets many days. It adds up really quickly. I think I’ve managed to eat under 40g of fat exactly once. Keeping it under 70g average has been a challenge. On a day to day basis it’s not that hard, but then you go out to eat with friends or colleagues and all of the sudden you’re posting a 120g fat day.

Non fat greek yogurt has become a staple for me. So has skim milk (especially the brands with more protein like Fair Life).

My day often looks something like:

Breakfast: cereal or oatmeal (1-2 servings) with 1 cup skim milk. Non fat Greek Yogurt (1-2 servings) with nature valley protein granola. Coffee with 2% milk.

Lunch: A high fiber grain and lean meat. For example, 10 min Farro (1-2 servings) with 4 chicken sausage links (the lowest fat I can find) and a green apple. Yesterday it was chickpea salad, rice, and pan fried chicken breast (1/2 tablespoon oil).

Dinner: Similar to lunch. Some other meat options are chicken baked in non fat greek yogurt (so you don’t hate yourself) and salmon. Usually try harder to sneak a vegetable in here too. Broccoli, baby carrots, or spinach.

I snack between breakfast and lunch and after my evening workout. What I choose for snacks depends on where I’m falling short on macros. It’s almost never fat, lol. It’s usually protein, so I’ll have a whey protein shake with skim milk or water. If I’m well rounded for the day it’ll usually be a pint of Halo Top which has a decent amount of all my macros.

If you’re managing hunger up the fiber, not the fat. I find it hard to believe anyone can be that hungry if they’re getting more than 40g of fiber/day. If you’re eating low fiber now, I’d up it slowly. Going from 10g of fiber to 40g overnight will wreak havoc on your bowel.

And if you have a bad snacking habit, replace those nuts with raw baby carrots. You’ll last about 2 weeks before your snacking habit is gone.

To answer your actual questions (to hit 200g protein, 70g fat, 300-400g carbs):

  1. I probably average 1.5 servings of Whey/day. Sometimes it’s 0. Most of the time it’s 1. Sometimes it’s 2. It’s very rarely more
  2. Whatever gets me to >50g protein for the meal. I measure in grams, but I’d guess that’s usually 6-8oz.
  3. Baby carrots, bananas, non fat greek yogurt, halo top, and cliff bars.
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  1. Usually 1.5 scoops. Half to give my breakfast a boost, which mostly consists of milk and tons of carbs. Sometimes an egg or two. Then I have a full scoop with milk, oats and a banana for a liquid lunch.

  2. About 5-7 ounces and only once per day with supper. I am a milkaholic so I get lots of protein from that. I’m also trying the high carb thing for my bulk so I get a bunch of protein from grains. I always make sure to get enough high quality protein per meal though. I am also pretty cheap and meat is too expensive.

  3. I was in pretty much the same position when I started my cut (which just ended) I tracked my intake to see what I normally eat and found I like 150g of fat per day. I wasn’t thrilled with the idea of cutting back to 75g.

It wasn’t so bad though. I just decided to make a couple of changes at a time and work towards bringing it down. It was easier than I thought. I was down below 90 within a few days and went as low as 60 towards the end of my diet. Some days I would accidentally be below 50 and add a spoonful of peanut butter.

Here’s what I did: Switched to 1% milk (and eventually skim milk in my shakes, not to just drink, yuk). No more heavy cream in my coffee. This was easy. I just had to use higher quality beans/brewing methods and drink it black. Easy on the butter. I used to love soaking toast, English muffins and bagels in the stuff. It wasn’t hard to just use less, though I eventually started eating more oats and cereals and less bread to avoid the butter temptation. Those things alone almost cut my fat in half. Then stuff like never having more than two eggs at a time (fine with me, I had a tendency to get sick of them which doesn’t happen anymore and I will NOT eat egg whites, I have standards!) No silly stuff like sausages that are almost all fat.

The one thing I am not willing to compromise on is delicious dinners featuring well marbled meats. You will not catch me eating chicken breasts unless they are cooked in a rich curry sauce. In order to achieve this I kept 2 of my 4 meals per day pretty much the same and max 10g of fat each: My lunch/post-workout shake and bedtime snack of cottage cheese, fruit and oatmeal. I found having some consistent meals made tracking a lot easier. I would just pre-log them, eat fairly intuitively at breakfast then I would only have to worry about my macros at suppertime when deciding what else I can or can’t have with my main meat serving.

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Hey Fevzay,

I believe the reason there is so much discussion and mystery about nutrition is that it can be such a struggle for so many of us. I am delighted you have gotten so many thoughtful and amazing responses thus far. I don’t know if “eating disorder” was in jest or if you feel like your head is spinning with all of the information that you are accumulating and trying to put into practice. Sometimes little steps are good, then we add a little more and a little more and it’s not so overwhelming. It can be difficult not to get all in our head about nutrition especially when we have goals in mind. Here is the great thing (actually there are many great things)… First, nothing you wrote leads me to think “eating disorder,” in saying that, I don’t know what is happening behind the scenes. Second, think about this… A goal without a plan is just a wish. Sounds like you are getting a plan darlin’ so you got this:)

  1. Depends on the day, often 1-2 scoops 24 grams per scoop (depending on kind)
  2. Lots of chicken - 6 oz servings get me there.
  3. My goal for fats is 33 and usually I can be legit with it. I don’t do nuts or nut butters, I mean they are yummy but at 1500 calories I just can’t afford them and I would rather save my fat for butter or bacon or cheese… because dying early is apparently my gig.

For breakfast I will often mix a scoop of whey into plain, nonfat, greek yogurt (it’s yummy), add fruit and it is delightful, together its 46 grams of protein for breakfast and no cooking required. Also what about prepping your food for the week, when you get up early you can grab the container and go!! This method also allows you to weigh/measure everything and you can pre-record it into MFP.

I get up at 445 in order to do a quick workout, get ready, corral the offspring and get to work. No way could I eat that early so I just wait till usually 10 ish before I can stomach food. For breakfast you can also cook some steel cut oats, apples and add cinnabon protein powder to it… crazy good AND you can easily cook enough for an entire week and grab and go :smile:. On weekends I may do egg whites and bacon (yes I would rather have bacon than the yolk of an egg… because… bacon!)

Lunch is mostly chicken and veggy’s, the chicken is done in like 567 different ways, but still chicken, this is done mainly because I actually like the stuff and it’s easy.

Dinner is so haphazard with me, really it could be anything from brinner to a roast to well, Chicken.

Someone mentioned coffee, if you like a nice iced mocha… fill a shaker with ice, pour coffee and add chocolate whey, shake and fall in love. You can also use mix vanilla whey then add some to your coffee instead of cream, this is a more manly way to go about it.

At night if I have calories left I will mix a frozen banana, splash of almond milk, chocolate whey, 100% cocoa and a dash of cinnamon… nice way to finish off your night, it’a like ice cream.

One last thing, find friends on MFP that you respect and/or have the same type of goals and do some food diary stalking for ideas, it doesn’t mean you have to eat like them, they just may have parts to incorporate into your nutrition routine.

Good luck!! YOU GOT THIS!!!

10

Overweight 30-something wanting to get stronger and lose the belly? Don’t sweat it man, you are not alone.
I did the Keto and PSMF thing for 5 months and lost a crapload of weight, but all of my lifts stalled.
After reading To Be A Beast, I found a more lifting-friendly balance.

Fats (even healthy ones) make staying within macros difficult.
Chicken and mushrooms were my biggest heros in all of this.
Protein powder and fresh fruit played big roles too.

My favorite meal to bulk prep is basically a burrito bowl.
1.5 servings of chicken, 1 serving of lean steak, 2 servings of white rice, 2 servings of fresh mushrooms, 2 servings of steamed veggies, 2-3 servings of hot salsa.
Smoke, air fry, bake, pan fry … whatever works for you.
I like to add habanero jack cheese as well.

Blueberries, apples, melons and bananas make great snacks without breaking the calorie bank.
Oats (overnight or made as needed) work well to provide energy and fill you up in the morning.

When I eat out, a nice hunk of learn steak with sides of broccoli and more broccoli work out well.

Protein powder in the kitchen, car and desk drawer make adding protein to an otherwise lacking meal easy.
Add to water to keep calories low.

Use high-sugar bread, processed “convenience stacks” and unnecessary fats (butter, peanut butter, candy bars, higher fat milk) sparingly.

Oddly enough, being married with 4 kids, they’ve actually adopted a lot of my habits rather than rebel.
The prepped meals in particular were very popular with my teens. They’d steal them all of I didn’t put so much hot seasoning/sauce/salso to protect my stash.
I substitute riced cauliflower in my wife’s meals since isn’t interested in the carbs or calories from rice.

I hope that this helps.

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First off, WOW! Thanks for all of the thoughtful and informative responses. Will do my best to respond accordingly asap.

thanks again,
Jordan aka Fevzay

12

Finally responded to everyone. Thanks again for the tips! A few lingering questions…

  1. Is there a particular brand of whey that you like that isn’t too offensive regarding protein spiking (assuming its not Whey RX)? I missed out on the spring sale last weekend. Would’ve been great to pickup a few containers, but it was sold out when I added it to the cart.

  2. Regarding tracking fat…if I’m going to cook a few chicken breasts in a skillet, how much fat do you count if you add a tablespoon of something (e.g. olive oil)? I mean…should I count the entire tablespoon, or is there a better way of tracking how much actually got into the chicken? Am I being nutty by asking this?

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  1. I like a couple different proteins… not sure if they are good, but I am going with yes because I am not a nutritionist and blissful ignorance works for me…lol…J/K… I have used Nutrabio and Trutein but I do want to try Whey RX because you know … why not… might as well support the people giving me the education I have gotten from the site/podcast/ You tube’s/blogs.
  2. You know if you use a non-stick pan (don’t hate on me I only own one but use it for this) you can spray it lightly and cook the chicken in the skillet adding a little water if needed or you can bake/grill it without oil. You don’t actually have to use oil in the cooking of the chicken and yes I do count oil I use in those instances. As to why do I count the entire tablespoon I justify it two ways…1. no way for me to figure out how much I used and 2. you will never be exact no matter how much weighing and measuring you do, it is not a perfect method so in that thought process, I am sure I under represented calories somewhere so might as well make it up somewhere else.
  3. Are you being nutty? Nah it’s just the process, and it’s a consistent process. Hell I am like 8 years in and still trying to work the process. Sometime’s I am golden not only am on on the wagon but driving the damn thing, sometimes I fall off the wagon, end up in a ditch covered with mud and have to claw my way back to the wagon… dude… it’s life … YOU GOT THIS!! You can never fail until you stop trying:)

Best of luck… Kristara:)

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I have not read everyone’s response, so sorry if any of this is a repeat. That said,

  1. There is no room for the fats in nuts and/or nut butter when cutting weight. This has been my experience, but eating lean meats is enough to put your fat intake up high enough. From there, if you add fats from other ingredients that are practically necessary (say EVOO on a salad) then you likely have your fat for the day. Even cooking vegetables without added fats/oils is difficult. Nuts and nut butters are also too easy to grab and/or indulge in.

  2. I need 4 meals a day at least to get 200+ grams of protein. It’s not that hard if you do that, but to do it while cutting and maintaining proper fat intake means you have to prepare ahead of time and eat lots of lean meats. Chicken is about the only way to get it done consistently, with the occasional lean cut of beef or a non-fatty fish. Don’t forget about beans/legumes as these have healthy doses of protein that help to bolster your total intake. Just watch the carbs they bring also.

15

maybe the question now is your data safe? Jokes aside Euby and Kristara nailed it

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Hey @fevzay High fiber low cal snack… GG’s Scandinavian Crisps, you can order it online at the website, I have had no success finding them in stores. But they will up your fiber game for realzee’s. At 20 calories per crisp they have 4 grams of fiber… like for real a game changer. You can top with just about anything, but you probably will need a topping of some sort. I have made little pizza’s out of them, top them with greek yogurt and protein powder mix or fat free cream cheese sprinkled with everything but the bagel seasoning from trader joes. Seriously you can put whatever you want on them. Another item I use is Ole Xtreme Wellness high Fiber wrap, I use it for sandwiches, taco’s, eggs… whatever you can think of to put in them and they are quick… I have even made chicken quesadilla’s when I have the calories… point is, they are versatile and have 50 calories and 11 grams of fiber. One more high fiber option that is truly a quick snack… Quest Bars I think most of them have like 16 grams of fiber or something like that.

Now full disclosure on these items, they have some weird math going on that has thrown me off on calories and macro’s that I have been researching and I can’t figure out if the explanation I have found is legit or Naw… I suppose I could ask Jordan the nutrition guru because it has been driving me insane on the issue, hmmm… maybe I will continue to research a bit before I bug the poor fellow

One more thing that I have recently put together thanks to something I read on here… Mix 1 cup of non-fat plain greek yogurt, 1 scoop chocolate protein powder, 2 tbls unsweetened cocoa powder and 2-3 packages of Stevia… Holy goodness gracious is it lovely. I have put it in the freezer for an ice cream texture and topped with strawberries… lots of protein and what an incredible dessert.

Ok i’m done, hope this is helpful:)

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I have been making good progress. With a little bit of time and effort (and from posts here), I’ve found some great additions to my menu.

All of my macros are trending closer and closer (while getting easier) each week.

Thanks for the continued help and encouragement!

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