It’s my first time posting on here as someone with back issues who has been doing strength training on and off for a few years now, specifically on the Starting Strength method, which I continue to believe in on principle. I believe in the idea that a strong back is a healthy back, but back has pre-existing issues that continue to get aggravated when I deadlift, and lo and behold I can’t seem to deadlift my way out of it. I’m here to learn and see about addressing these issues as I refuse to believe that I’m a write-off just yet.
About me
39 years old.
5’10"
190lbs
SQ: 270, 3x5
DL: 305, 1x5
Bench: 175, 3x5
Press: 130, 3x5
I understand that these numbers are low for a man my size, but I’m doing what I can and I keep having to take breaks because I tweak my back. It seems like every time my deadlifts get heavy and I push myself, my back gets displeased.
In 2016, when I was 31, I had a discectomy at L4-L5 due to severe sciatic pain. Prior to that I had an MRI: degenerative disc disease, “arthritic changes” in the back, spinal stenosis, hernia at L4-L5, Bulging Disc at L5-S1. Their advice: never lift heavy again. I haven’t followed that advice.
I understand this post is generic, but basically and as a starting point I’m hoping to find clarity on the following:
I hear that some people just shouldn’t be deadlifting if their lower back is too messed up. Is there any guideline for determining who falls in that category and who doesn’t?
I don’t trust my back in terms of pain signalling. I will literally go from being hunched over, completely jacked up, barely able to walk to completely fine in a matter of days - and I just know that’s not injuries work. If there was damage there, it would hurt consistently and for longer - no?
If you have a client who comes in with this type of messed up back - what is your typical course of action? Is it simply to lower the weight to something manageable and keep deadlifting?
Ultimately I’m fighting the idea that I’m ready to be put to pasture!
Thanks in advance for your perspectives
Nic
Howdy! Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting.
A few thoughts here:
Starting Strength’s Novice Linear Progression is not a program that should be run for years, even with starts and stops. It works as written for an average of ~ 3 months before petering out, which indicates a need for something new…not a “reset” and continuing to run a demonstrably ineffective program that had multiple deficiencies in it from the start, e.g. little variety, no autoregulation, no conditioning, and untenable progression. All of these things increase injury risk and reduce efficacy. If someone gets excited about training through this program, great! It shouldn’t be run after a few months however.
A stronger back as measured by virtually any metric doesn’t seem to track with reduced injury risk. We do think that exercise, getting stronger, and overall improving activity tolerance are good ideas. Someone deadlifting 405 vs 315 doesn’t tell me anything about their back pain risk.
Your numbers are not low for your size. In fact, most of these numbers are higher than what Dr. Baraki achieved on LP. Whether you go on to squat and deadlift over 600 and 700 respectively is unknown, but the idea that you haven’t “gotten enough” out of LP to move on is incorrect. I believe the program is also significantly contributing to your recurrent back injuries, which ultimately keeps you from reaching your potential.
I do not think your medical history is a contraindication to deadlifting. I do think it’s difficult to “unlearn” all the bad advice and narratives you’ve learned from the medical system so far, e.g. you’re broken, your anatomy is pickled, and so on. This parallels bad advice people get with respect to training. It’s hard to unlearn this stuff, but there’s no contraindication to deadlifting from previous back surgery.
Damage =/= back pain and pain is not a reliable signal of damage. We have some material on this with respect to the deadlift here and here.
We would have a client with back pain do some sort of hinge pattern that was tolerable, as outlined in the two articles linked above.
Ultimately, my recommendation would be to stop doing the novice linear progression and change training to something more suited to your needs. I’m hopeful that this message will be well-received, but if not, I wish you the best anyway.
Dr. Feigenbaum, your message is very well received and I greatly appreciate you taking the time.
You may be right with regards to it potentially being the time for me to move on from the NLP and to focus on something else given that at this point my back is always some level of injured after a few weeks of squatting and deadlifting every single workout, no matter how much I tend to my form.
That said, I am still interested in increasing my strength and seeing my Squats and DLs go up, as well as getting a bit bigger (hoping for a 200lb ish walking around weight), but most importantly, I am prioritizing my overall health, including my back health, which has been the most taxing issue to date.
I’ve read both articles you’ve provided, which were extremely useful in offering perspective, specifically the first one on ‘entry points’ and how to return to training following an injury or tweak. That said, given my goals, current condition, and openness to changing programs, I am now thinking about next steps. Understanding everyone’s case is different, do you have any views on which template could be best for me? I am wondering if I should go to something like the the beginner strength training (though I wouldn’t exactly call myself a beginner) or a powerlifting template, or if there is something else I should do before continuing my training… Any thoughts?
Once again, thank you very much for taking the time. I am hopeful that I can work towards addressing and resolve these issues as I approach the big 4-0.
I think if you’ve been experiencing back pain pretty consistently for weeks to months, it’d be inappropriate to recommend a training program that didn’t prioritize rehab. Our low back pain template would be my recommendation. It includes suitable upper body programming for where you’re currently at as well.
I went ahead and purchased the low back rehab as well as the powerbuilding template, and I’ll get to work on that. I’ve also listened to some of the BBM podcasts and read some of your material, and I must say it’s a refreshing perspective compared to the philosophy of grinding it out and adding 5 pounds indefinitely.
I’m excited to introduce some variety to my workouts, and I’m very excited about the idea of not having every single workout be a grueling mental test that also destroys me physically. I’m looking forward to enjoying lifting again, lifting in sustainable manner, and continuing to get stronger over time.
Thanks for all your help, and I’ll keep you in the loop!
Cheers,
Nic