Short and overfat, on NLP but have questions about diet....

Nutrition Q&A [Moderated]
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So I’m on a NLP and I am getting a ton of mixed information online. Stats: 5’7" 41.5" umbilicus, 214 lbs 33% bf 34 BMI. For sure I’m overweight/obese (I mean I don’t “look” that bad but yeesh). I’ve taken my squat and deadlift from 155 → 245 squat and 270 deadlift, bench from 90 to 140 and press from 75 - 117.5 in just one month. So far I am recovering well, but only really locked in my diet the past week and have just started taking measurements.

So the issue: Per Barbell Medicine Jordan you recommend that obese individuals like myself try to gain strength but the focus should be on getting bf% down to < 20, at which case I assume we then go into caloric surplus and run out a LP until we hit some more intermediate level programming and just hit the bulk/cut cycle until we are where we wanna be. Per BBM website, my TDEE is 2800 cals, and the recommendation is 2500 cals (187 grams protein, 252 grams carbs and 88 grams fat) which I’m tracking with the hand method to good effect. The issue though is that a lot of big names in NLP like Mark Rippetoe and others recommend a caloric SURPLUS to really get the “low hanging fruit” of strength gains and cut later since a NLP is really 6-10 months short anyway.

My gut tells me to keep the 2500 cals and ride out the weight loss and then slowly increase cals back up when I’m healthy again. I just can’t really imagine continuing to get strong as my bf drops in a caloric deficit, like physiologically it doesn’t seem to make sense with what we know about nutrition and thermodynamics, right?

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Howdy, Tank. Thanks for joining the forum and for your pointed question.

From weight management, I do think losing body fat would be beneficial for health. With our Calorie calculator, giving you a 2800 Cal target, I think 2500 Cal/d is reasonable, along with 180g protein, and 35g fiber per day. For the rest of the macros targets (if desired), check our macro calculator. Both calculator pages have lots of nutrition info you may find useful.

Regarding training, I think what you’ll find is that NLP’s progression model is not consistent with the adaptations leading to strength gain, which are comprised of adaptations at the level of the nervous system, muscle, tendons/ligaments, and bones, amongst others. These are on different timescales. Most of the observed “improvement” in strength is due to people starting below their capacity and then adding weight each session until they stall, the point where they’ve now caught up to their current strength, and the progression is outpacing the actual adaptation. Muscle takes a relatively long time to grow and adding more Calories in the untrained state doesn’t really juice the process anyway.

While I am happy that people find their way into training via NLP (or any other program), it’s progression model and organization (little variation, no conditioning, no autoregulation) leaves much to be desired. In short, I do not think the program works well for most people past ~ 2-3 months regardless of weight management. Like any other endeavor, it matters little what you accomplish in the first 2-3 months (outside of getting hooked and having fun), compared to what you do in the next decade.

For training, I would either keep doing NLP if you like it, but the first time things stall, move to something like the beginner prescription (or similar). I would also recommend doing some conditioning now to aid in both the weight loss (particularly body fat) , health purposes, as well as some bonus recovery for your lifting.

Another resource that may be helpful:

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I see, so basically you are saying unless I’m in a caloric surplus I’m not really growing new muscle strands/fibers but instead am just building myself back up to what physiological muscle I already do have? That’s very interesting! I think my gut is right then in saying I should go up til I stall out, then just ride that until I am at a health point where being in a caloric surplus makes sense.

Honestly that mentally frees me up to add in conditioning and not worry about “not maximizing strength gains”. You’ve literally solved the mathematical problem in my head about how all these coaches claim you can be in a catabolic state while also “increasing in strength”. The math never mathed, if you know what I’m saying.

Thank you for all of your time and effort writing free articles and even replying on message boards. You don’t have to do that, but you do and you will never know (or maybe you do!) how much it means to people like myself. God bless you, Jordan and your team.

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Hmm, worth a clarification here.

Strength is force production measured in a specific context. Increases in strength are due to neurological, muscular, and structural adaptations at the level of the tendons, ligaments and bones, amongst others.

For all trainees, neural and structural adaptations are going on at the same time, though they’re not on the same clock. This is independent of a Calorie surplus per se. You are building some muscle even on a deficit, though likely not as much as in a surplus.

If by “going up until you stall” you mean training, then sure, that’s reasonable. You could also change programs right now if that’s interesting to you. Either way, keep training :slight_smile:

Thanks for the kind words!