When did Starting Strength get so Game-of-Thronesey
itās not a cult, itās a religious movement
Regarding Andyās āsideā yah, although Iād articulate it that heās on his own side. Plenty of room in the sea.
1: I kind of suspect that Jordan was starting to want to get away from maintaining two boards so no telling which side started pushing for the ācycling.ā Iāve no clue what was going on under the hood compensation wise for his efforts on the forum though. His time as the SS nutrition forum mod certainly helped him establish his own brand.
As for your closing comment: Agreed. I canāt help but wonder how much of that is his Ego, and how much is $$.
Without knowing how long youāve already been on the NLP, Iāll say a āfew weeksā seems very quick to be dumping it. I think last year the template package included the BBM version of an NLP, but I donāt see it in the shop any more. If youāre truely interested, perhaps @LeahBBM has a means for you to purchase the BBM version of an NLP by itself in template version outside of the āstore.ā Based off comments Jordan has made outside of the context of his templates, I would wager that it has RPE integrated somehow.
By the way Leah, am I going about this right by piniging you with an @ when wanting to bring BBM attention to something in a discussion?
Adding: (just realized thereās another page of responses!)
@Euby I just checked the Master Template Bundle, and it doesnāt list an NLP. Is there something else Iām not aware of?
@Shakabrah OOOOH, thatās who everyone means by Izzy! Cool, as I mentioned before, heās the one who got me into SS with his programming reviews. Stupid Stronglifts. Also, yah, I keep bumping into interface issues with the main website especially with the graphics and such, although the forums arenāt as clunky. Iāve also put in a bit of effort trying to help out with things in my limited way since I havenāt ponied up for any actual goods or services yet, and Iāve benefited from their stuff so much. Jordanās got a āwebsite guyā but I find all the broken images and the need to scroll past a screen encompasing hedder to get to most content to be a negative hit on the site experience.
This x10000.
Bwahahaha, before the BBM website got revamped, the To Be a Beast article was topped off by an image of Rip sitting on the Iron Throne. The fact that that image poofed with the old website revamp, likely because itās broken, and instead thereās the issues I complained about in my last post makes your comment tie in hillariously with my complaints about the revamped websiteās graffics issues.
I think theyāve released the template bundle at least twice that I know of. I bought mine in 2017, and the NLP template is the very first one. Personally, to me that one template is purely educational in how theyād view a novice progression. It makes sense, but I donāt think itās in the āgotta haveā category for the programming itself. It does not use RPE at all to determine weights, though it does suggest that the lifter start rating their lifts using RPE in the 2nd half of the 12 weeks. The reason I like it, at least for me, is that in retrospect it would have likely gotten me to the same spot I arrived at with my SSLP, maybe a little further (since it ups the volume in a different way toward the end), and then ends with the direction to move on to either the 12-week Strength template or the Bridge.
I wasted 5-6 months after SSLP, including doing some of Andy Bakerās stuff. I ālearnedā a good bit from following a couple of Andyās routines, but progress was slow for me personally. When I first picked up the Bridge, progress exploded. I subsequently ran the Bridge 2.0, and progress was still great until I got toward the end and was too zealous with the weight increments, thus overshooting RPE without realizing for a few weeks. But that was also a great learning experience.
Look, Jordan and Austin have both said that a novice progression should probably only last about 3 months for most everyone before moving to more intermediate-style programming. SSLP is great, until you need a reset. At that point, you should move on. In that sense, Starting Strength is fantastic, but itās limited IMHO. The website is full of info about novices. PPST is poorly written. I actually like the layout of Sully/Andyās Barbell Prescription, but I get the feeling that the āvolume sensitiveā stuff is coming more from Sully than Andy. Andy uses some much higher volume stuff very frequently in most every non-SS setting Iāve seen. I have little doubt he knows how to train folks beyond the novice level.
I donāt really think they need to. SSNLP is really freaking effective. Until it isnāt. The problem SS has is their absolutely RELIGIOUS dedication to the concept. Theyāve lost site of the forest from the trees. Reynoldās āSSOC: the first yearā is a great example of this. He quotes absolutely nonsensical strength gains for his average client because heās really obviously talking about start and end of the massive reset new clients have to take on their lifts to work on form.
They all make varying levels of adjustment to drag out āLPā, including additional resets, while concluding itās an effective program because you lifted more weight than you did last session. All the while they seem to be incapable of doing the arithmetic Rip brags about in his article that started all this ā if you got stuck at a 200 bench, then reset to 180, and worked your way back up and ended at 210 4-8 weeks later, you didnāt make 30 lbs of progress. You made 10. In almost 2 months. And you actually made less because that 210 was after 2-3 fails at 207.5 and was RPE 10 ā so your new intermediate program needs to deload you yet again.
Throughout that grind to eke out a few extra lbs of progress over the course of MONTHS, your workouts take 2+ hours, youāre beat up because every lift is RPE 9.5 or 10, and youāre wondering if that next small jump is going to be your last. This supposedly builds character, teaches you about hardship, and makes you a better man. All of which they (some SSCs ā not all) prioritize over actually getting you stronger ā the thing youāre paying them for.
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Bwhahahaha!
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I lost a lot of respect for Rip for his recent article on intermediate programming, which is a mess, and for cutting off discussion on his board. For a brand that purports to believe in science and the free market of ideas, that was ridiculous. I lost a lot of respect for Reynolds for suggesting programming issues should be resolved in a back room over drinks (for a brand that ā¦). Iām not sure how Andy decided to sign his name to Ripās article, which goes against a lot of Andyās programming. Sully posting that we should stick to tradition and ignore all this new fangled stuff (which happens to be used by just about every major lifting coach) - it is possible that things can improve over old time notions.
BBM has a lot of good ideas and seems open to thought. This is good. Tom C joining them is definitely a good sign for BBM (not for SS).
For those curious, see https://www.exodus-strength.com/foruā¦hp?f=34&t=1067 and https://www.exodus-strength.com/foruā¦php?f=3&t=939
I did SSOC for a while and would make really good progress on LP but when I got put onto one of the intermediate programs it seemed like towards the end of the cycle Iād be grinding out hard ass reps every workout and my maxes never seemed to go up at the end of the program. I started reading Barbell Medicine had a different take on intermediate programming and it made me think maybe itās not me and their programming isnāt optimal.
@Serack You can definitely tag me on admin stuff and coaching stuff. Both are appropriate. 
Weāre a growing business here and we have a lot of room for growth and improvement. We are aware of that, sometimes, painfully aware of it. We do hope to both improve our current offerings and expand in various ways, especially in continuing to provide website/youtube/podcast content.
And Tom is still a SS coach however he does do some coaching with us.
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Donāt be too hard on yourself, you guys are doing an outstanding job so far, I think youāre changing many lives for the better, and I forsee BBM growing into something big. A big thanks for all the amazing free content you put out!
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The tag was for the guy asking about if BBM has an LP with RPE utilized in it, which I suspected there was a template for that you
might know how to supply.
As as for the kvetching, please see it as hoping for the best out of a product I have much love for.
Are you saying that you, jordan, austin and alan all got stripped of your SSC certification?
Is that even possible? If so, does that mean that if you do not belong to the Starting Strength Co. then you can never be a SSC?
Shouldnāt a certification be independent of the organization that issued it?
Yeahā¦But speculating on peoples motives and tribalism is just so dam irresistibleā¦
Our SS certifications were not stripped, we chose to relinquish them. The cert is independent of the SS Online Coaching business, yes. We have now posted the open letter on the matter. An Open Letter About Leaving Starting Strength | Barbell Medicine
Leah, where can I buy the BBM novice template, Iām really curios about it:)
It was due to not meeting the Maintenance of Certification (MOC) requirements, not dues. There are not currently, and so far as Iām aware never have been, any dues.
If I had a BBM coachās ear, Iād mention to them that they should be looking to scoop up any other former SSCās who let their credentials lapse like Tom.
There are definitely different levels of coaching ability even within SSCs. I will readily admit that Jordan, Austin, Leah, and Alan are all better coaches than I am. At the same time, Iām (probably) a better coach than some of those who have let their certification lapse. Though Hanley did, and heās better than me as well, so meh.
I doubt Starting Strength is in any danger of collapsing due to this. I think Starting Strength as a whole has lost some good people through it, but not to the point of being crippled.
Yeah, but that doesnāt fuel drama as well as talking about coaches being thrown out or arguments behind the scenes.
My memory of Ripās comment on the subject was flawed.
Was. Expired, didnāt renew his credential.
Edit: Come to think of it, since my PE cert requires $ to renew, I think at the time I (wrongly) assumed $ was involved in the SSC credential renewal Rip was referring to.
Also, I agree about a lot of this being trumped up internet drama. Long term, I hope the Drs dedication to science in their comments rather than ego trickles down to a forum community that is also more respectful than so many of the interactions Iāve seen in the unmoderated sections of SS.
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Hello! We arenāt currently publishing a novice template, but if and when we do, Iāll post it all over for everyone.