DPT vs. Society

Other Discussions Miscellaneous
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I could not decide where to throw this question/ discussion so I decided to go with the Miscellaneous thread.

I’ve wanted to know a few things about PTs as I am in the opportune window of my life where im changing from Military Police to civilian with a degree who doesn’t want to be in LE anymore and I can be what ever I want if i’m being completely honest.
I’ve already got my bachelors (Criminal Justice) 3.97 and have a full GI bill I can utilize so money isn’t really an issue at this point.

I spoken with briefly with Dr. Mike on instagram when I realized he had a similar non-traditional background education as myself. (this covers the DC route)
Ive also spoken with Jason about the med school route as well as awaiting the med school podcast from Dr. Jordan and Austin (covers the MD route)

I wanted to get some information on DPTs, Ive been using the ole google machine in regards to PTs and have received mixed opinions on pursuing it. A lot of it is complaints on how the APTA regards its members. Also i’ve read a lot that since the change to a doctoral program many PTs still have yet to embrace the “Dr.” title which has an impact on their credibility. Also the fact that a lot of older (and newer from what ive gathered from the threads) PTs use outdated treatment methods. So I just wanted to get some experiences from PTs on the threads and maybe Dr. Miles.

I’ve heard that a lot of people really enjoy being PTs but wish they could change peoples thoughts of them being massage therapists or just coaches with a doctorate degree is this a common theme?

Pay: Also, not to be the guy who asks about income but is it worth the investment and is there a decent ROI long term? From what I have read on the BLS website there is an increase in demand as the baby boomer generation gets older. Also already being a federal employee I don’t make much anyways (40k) its just my wife and I so providing for us is priority but we don’t need much, is 40k a doable salary for new DPTs?

Specialties: I’ve seen that you can specialize as a PT, is this similar to the ways the MDs specialize?

If so I would be really interested to know if there is a specialty dealing with amputees, especially if I could eventually be helping my veteran brothers and sisters who didn’t get to come back home in one piece like I did.

Work life: specifically after all the schooling, does the work life provide enough time to do things outside of work? I’ve spent the past 10 years deploying every year and when I am not deployed I work shift work 14 hour days (on nights), so what is your likes and dislikes about the workloads?

School: It would be a scapegoat just to ask if a DPT program is difficult because I know it would be challenging, but what are the classes actually like? Is there opportunities to be involved in research and actually contribute to the field? are the classes a lot of hands on practical application or no? what did you enjoy the most about your program?

Regrets: Finally, if you could do it all over again would yo do anything differently?

Im sure once I start getting replies ill have more questions but for now this is all!

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After reading some more ive found another question…

What/Where is the line between strength coach/ personal trainer and a Physical Therapist?

Obvious answer is the ability to treat a diagnosed problem but beyond is what I am looking for.

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Bak2ThaBasix,

You’ve asked some broad questions and I’ll try to address some here.

Salary: you can narrow this down to your zip code and practice setting for more specifics
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physical-therapists.htm

Is this worth it/ROI? Like anything, up to a point

Specialty: Yes you can specialize
http://www.abpts.org/home.aspx
I work with PT’s that specialize in amputees. Most are from a disease process vs soldiers. There are many opportunities within the military to work with this population

Work life: balanced. non-productive tasks continue to climb like anywhere in healthcare. If you work private practice you will likely do more outside of work hours marketing and shoulder rubbing.

Regrets: none for me. I’ve been fortunate. BUT…

I typically suggest those looking into physical therapy school to go the military route. Having education paid, being an officer in the military, higher pay with continued promotions, access to countless patients and populations, what I consider the best PT program in the world. The professor in the picture if Gail Deyle. You’ll be hard pressed to find a smarter, more challenging person in the profession. Don’t let the “manual therapy” title fool you. It’s critical thinking and clinical reasoning unlike any other program

https://www.baylor.edu/ompt/

Hope that helps

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Thank you for the response! A lot of good information. Funny you mention Baylor my wife is actually applying there next year. I unfortunately am unable to apply for the DPt program through there. I have to much time in service as well as to high of a disability rating. As I mentioned though the wife is taking full advantage of that.

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You asked about the difference between DPT and S&C.

The ceiling for a PT is much lower than a S&C coach; that said, only strength coaches working at top tier Division I (football) schools are making salaries in the upper six figures. Across the board a PT will make more than a strength coach. Being a strength coach in collegiate athletics carries with it a long run of un-paid internships, low paying high hour assistant strength coaching positions in search of the likely low paying head strength coach position. You really need to know somebody to move up the ranks. Mark Rippetoe is unapologetic when talking about strength coaches in collegiate and professional sports. Add to this the politics of collegiate athletics. If the coach/administration that hired you walks or gets fired…bye bye…

As for practicing: I am a strength coach with a physical therapy license. I simply “strength and condition” people recovering from illness, injury, surgery or experiencing pain. My folks squat everyday. Typically off a table, sometimes holding a weighted object. My folks deadlift everyday; sometimes an empty laundry basket, sometimes a heavy loaded box. My folks press and pull everyday; sometimes a low resistance theraband, other times a heavy box or dumbbell. My folks practice “get-ups” everyday, sometimes, just getting out of bed. My folks do loaded carries. Its just a matter of scale: Are they an 85 year old recently out the hospital after 30 days or an 18 year old getting back to shot put?

I can tell you my “strength and conditioning” makes a far greater impact on the 85 year old. Just this week I had a spouse and patient become jubilant when I taught them how to move from supine to sitting independently. The patient gained confidence and the spouse realized their life just became much less stressful. I had the individual squatting, hip thrusting, doing get ups, etc. Just scaled and dosed to their level.

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That was hands down the best answer I could have gotten! Thank you for taking the time to explain to me the difference as this has been a bit of a confusion for me. And as I mentioned PT is definitely on my list of potential career paths! Ive never been much of a sports guy and have always been more geared toward the “average joe” or in more of a biased view the veteran. Having dealt with my fair share of PTs who I thought were terrible and a couple who I wouldn’t have traded for the world it sparked an idea in my head that maybe I would enjoy that career field.

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Sounded like you were thinking more PT but I saw you brought up medical school. I can speak for the MD side of things but not really the PT side. I am currently in residency for diagnostic radiology, which means I am in the point of my career where I am overworked and underpaid. So I am speaking for medicine at the worst time.

Pay: It varies a lot based on specialty. Primary care tends to make in the 200-350,000 range. Other specialties can make a bit more. Although you need to put that in context. Most people in medical school have a lot of school debt. I have about $450,000 in medical school loans and I graduated from undergraduate debt free. There is also just a lot of unpaid or underpaid time that happens during training, so your salary in a way is paying for all the past hours and debt that you have accumulated. When making around $250,000 I have read some articles that state you are basically making the same hourly pay as a teacher throughout your career. So don’t do it for the pay (I would assume that advice would apply to PTs as well).

Specialties: There are so many specialties that there is something for everyone. After medical school, we do residency which is where we specialize. Those range from 3 years to 6 years. Then you can subspecialize through what is called a fellowship. It would probably be very difficult to work with veterans with amputees. You could look into physiatry which is a physician that works closely with PTs to rehab patients. I think their job is pretty interesting and really thought about doing that.

Work life: During medical school and residency there is no balance. Typically every month you are doing something different so some months are easier than other months. After training it just depends on what you specialize in. If you have an office-based practice like family medicine then you can work 40 hours a week or less with pretty regular hours, no nights, no weekends. If you do surgery of some sort you might be doing twice that with irregular hours working night and weekends. In the hospital setting, everyone tends to be overworked but physical therapists seem to be happier about it.

School: Most schools do 2 years of classes then 2 years of clinical rotations. My first 2 years were miserable, my school seemed to give us a lot more work than my friends at other medical schools. I was putting in 80-100 hour weeks then. I remember studying and looking out the window seeing the PT students playing volleyball or passing a frisbee almost daily (never saw medical students do that). Rotations were great, those were more like 40-50 hour weeks and you are finally getting to play doctor.

Regrets: Most residents that I talk to regret going into medicine. I tend to fluctuate based on my mood. I would say about 1/3 of the attending radiologist that I work with love their job, 1/3 are indifferent, and 1/3 hate their job. That is coming from one of the happier specialties too. I do not think it is worth it as I have missed out on important times with my family, accumulated lots of debt and the time commitment seems to be everything, even when I go home I have to choose between my children or studying. I think if there is another option I would do that. For you, it sounds like you are looking at PT more than medical so do that.

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Benieche,

I read your post earlier this morning on my phone and figured I would respond when I got back to a computer.

Pay: I’ve heard this a lot from most people in the MD field and although that overhead cost is substantial compensation will eventually make the invest me worth it so I believe ROI is pretty good.

Specialties: YEs I looked at the physiatry and if I were to pursue the MD route this seems like the specialty I would attempt to go for (aspirations). Why did you decide against that route if you dont mind me asking?

Work Life: Not to be the guy that says “i’m not apposed to working long hours” but I am that guy, i’ve spent the past 10 years working 14 hour days while not deployed and 16-24 hours while deployed. If there is one thing being in the military gave me as a skill set, it is the unhealthy ability to continue working even through full exhaustion.

School: I guess my priority question for the first two years would be focus? I’ve heard a lot of people say its a fire hose of information but what is that information?

Regrets: Your choice of regret is actually reassuring to me. I don’t have children and can’t (got a vasectomy earlier this year) so it is just my wife, my four dogs, and myself. I applaud you and the fact that you have a family and are taking the task of medical school on is the type of ethic and mentality I aspire to emulate to bravo to you!

Overall: Thank you so much for your contribution to my thread! The challenge of any route in the medical field (PT, MD, Chiro, etc…) seems like the type of challenge I want in my life. I feel as though I also luck out (I say luck out but I sort of earned it) in that I have two programs available to me that will help me transition into the medical career field. My GI bill being the first but there is also a program that will be available to me called Voc Rehab where I can receive funding for educational expenses that are in a different field than the military trained me for.

Also, I guess I should have titled this thread something else because I am appreciating the responses regardless of the medical field! KEEP IT UP!

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I ended up deciding on radiology for several reasons. In general I just preferred the work they do with imaging, procedures and less patient interaction. Early on I decided that while I like helping people, I don’t want to interact with them. I find it draining. Each specialty has its own personality and radiology fit mine well. It also helps that pay is on the higher end of the spectrum. There wasn’t anything wrong with physiatry that I saw but more I just felt radiology was a better fit for me. Physiatry is also not a common field and so there isn’t a lot of discussion about it. Overall I may sound like a downer but I actually really like radiology. I just think most people do not know what they are getting into before starting and once they realize medicine isn’t what they expected it is easier suck it up, finish and earn the money. It is a lot more people than you would think. That’s why I tend to discourage people from going into medicine.

As far as the hours, I had the same mind set before starting as you did. I had good parents that taught me to work harder than the majority of people, did commercial fishing among other difficult jobs throughout my adult life (cant say I was deployed though). I thought I would be tougher than others (still think I am). In medicine though the hours are long, irregular and continuous for years. And the few times it does slow down it is usually to study more than usual. I would say for the last 8 years I have averaged about 70 hours of work. Don’t forget about nights and weekends which have to be covered. In residency you are probably only get an average of 4 days off a month. Maybe it wont phase you, but I know a lot of hard workers and it eventually gets to them. The people that thrive in this environment are those that love medicine so much they don’t want to do anything else with there life.

Medical school information. It really isn’t difficult information to understand, I found undergraduate work in chemistry and physics to be much more difficult conceptually. But like you said the volume. People use the firehouse analogy which is probably accurate. It is just a not stop flood of information from histology, anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, immunology, pharmacology, and pathology (I am probably missing stuff). The quantity of information is more than what you would find in the same class in the undergraduate setting. Also if you do something like physician assistant you would get a watered down version of the material. Most of the classes are just memorization of terms, facts and associations. Physiology probably has the most concepts to learn but most of it is shear memorization. If you have taken an anatomy course that would be the closest example of what I am talking about. If you haven’t I would recommend it regardless of what you choose to do. It will be useful for any medical field. Once you are done with the first 2 years you will start clinical medicine and realize that a lot of what you learned is not that as useful as you would have hoped and you will have to learn a lot of information just to function. And if you are like me and decide to do radiology you will realize that again that all those years are almost wasted because medical imaging information is so different from most of everything learned that it is like starting over again.

Food for thought or for anyone else reading. If you want to be in the medical field but not invest all the time, energy and money, there are a lot of mid level careers in medicine that I had no clue about but are definite options. There are the obvious PA/NP, and I would place PT as a midlevel. There are also surgical first assists if you want to do surgery, pathology assistants which is actually a pretty great job for work-life balance, radiology assistants, I know there are others but I am blanking on them.

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