Losing strength and programming while cutting.

Training Q&A [Moderated]
1

Hello,

I really cannot thank you enough guys for all the material you produce and efforts you put.
I have been suffering lately with programming and maintaining strength while losing weight.

Training background:
I started strength training seriously 15 months ago.
1- (6 months) I followed stronglifts 5x5 before stalling after three deloads on squats (I was on a roller coaster of aggressive caloric deficits and surpluses, while being on a low-carb high-fat, but not keto, diet)
2- (5 months) I was only able to train for 2 months during this period with no significant strength gains.
3- (4 months) Since mid-April until now, I have been following 531 while being in caloric deficit and losing strength.

My current one-rep maxes:
Deadlift :285lbs without a belt.
Squat: 250lbs without a belt.
Bench: 160lbs
Press: 115lbs

My body measurements:
Age: 24 (Male)
Weight: 187lbs (84.9 kg)
Height: 6’1 (1.86 m)
Waist at navel: 36.6 (93 cm)
Waist at largest -2 cm below navel-: 38.2 (97 cm)
Chest: 37 (94 cm)
Neck: 14.8 (37.6 cm)
I usually take the largest waist reading and my neck circumference and use the navy method to estimate my body fat. currently it is around 22%

My diet:
I have been in caloric deficit for 13 weeks. During the first 10 weeks I wasn’t getting enough protein; around 80 grams; nevertheless, I was losing 1.8lbs (0.8kg) weekly.
For the past three weeks I have been following a flexible dieting protocol. I get my total calories and protein recommendations from Avatar nutrition.
Currently, I am consuming 1900kcal with 165 grams of protein. I divide the rest equally between carbohydrates and fats. Sometimes I go low on fat stopping at 25% of total calories and sometimes I do the same with carbohydrates.
Over the course of those three weeks I have been losing around 2.2lbs (1kg) weekly.

Medical issues:
My fasting blood glucose is usually around 105mg/dL.
My systolic blood pressure averages around mid 120s. Sometimes it shoots up to mid 130s. My pulse pressure is also relatively high; around mid 50s.
It is worth noting that I used to be obese, around 305lbs.

My goals:
My first short term goal which I want to achieve in 4 to 8 weeks is to get to a much lower body fat percentage and waist circumfrence for aesthetics reasons, and hopefully to help with my blood pressure and fasting sugar level; however, I want do so while maintaining or gaining strength, if possible.
The second goal I would like to work on is to gain a significant amount of muscle mass and strength in my upper body.
And my overall long term goal is to get generally stronger and bigger.

My main problems are:
1- I am currently losing strength.
2- I don’t know what programming technique to follow over the next 4 to 8 weeks.
3- My upper body is generally weak and small.
4- I believe that I can still make novice gains since my upper lifts didn’t grow as well as my lower lifts while following novice LP, and since I wasn’t eating optimally while doing novice LP. By not eating optimally I mean: not being in caloric surplus all the time and not getting enough carbohydrates and protein.

So my questions are:
1- During th following 4 to 8 weeks and while I am staying in my current caloric deficit, does my programming really matter? Is there anything I can do to gain or maintain strength? Would you recommend the bridge here?
2- After I finish my cut, can I re-run novice LP again and make significant muscle mass and strength gains?
3- Do you believe that there are basic strength limits -maybe as a function of height and weight- that one has to hit after novice LP? I am asking about this because I am extremely upset with my upper body lifts and I feel like I can gain some strength if I follow novice LP again.
4- Any specific advice regarding my tiny and weak upper body?

2

Hi there,

Congratulations on your significant weight loss. That is excellent work.

I suspect that your protein intake is probably on the low side of what we’d recommend for you in this situation. (See the To Be A Beast article for details here, but base it off of your known maintenance/deficit values from your current dieting experience).

  1. No matter what you do in the next 4 to 8 weeks, you are not going to gain a substantial amount of muscle mass in your upper body while in a caloric deficit, especially on a very low-volume program with respect to the upper body. But that’s OK. Focus on the big picture here. You did not mention where you are in training (have you finished the LP? or are you still making every-48-hour progress?). If you are finished with the LP, I would move on to the Bridge.

  2. We would not recommend re-running the novice LP after your cut, assuming you have run it through before.

  3. No, there are no basic strength expectations that one “has to hit” after the LP. Lots of people finish that program with very weak benches and presses, which has to do with training sensitivity (a concept we’ve discussed on our podcast) as well as the low volume and frequency of upper body lifting on that program.

  4. Train more, and be patient. Nothing significant happens in just 4 weeks.

3

Hello Dr. Asutin thanks a lot for your response.

Regarding my training progression, I followed 5x5 for 6 months and according to the program, I did finish novice LP upon stalling after three deloads on squats. But I just feel that I can still make some novice gains right now; nevertheless, I assume I should start with the bridge. Yet I am still confused about few aspects with regards to programming and different phases I hope you could help me here.

I was saving the bridge and many other templates for when I am maintaining or slowly gaining weight; since I assumed that if I run it now I wouldn’t have any impressive results neither in muscle mass nor strength.

  • According to your comment, I assume you’d agree with this assumption with respect to muscle mass, but would you agree that strength gains would also be minimal, or is there still room for strength gains after the novice phase even without putting muscle mass?

  • Can someone fall back a phase? Like, if someone finished novice LP and are now only able to make objective progress week to week, then they stopped training for a while, or ran a horrible program where they lost strength, or lost a significance amount of weight. Could they get back to making progress session to session again?

  • Is it a horrible idea to back off my weights a little and try to check if I am actually done with novice LP while cutting? I am thinking of running Izzy Narvez PowerliftinToWin novice three-phase program which is similar to starting strength but calls for more volume.

  • You mentioned that some people finish novice LP with weak lifts. Does that correlate with overall low strength gains during upcoming phases? I have a tendency to believe that most gains are made during the novice phase. Is that completely false?

  • Many claim, not sure if this is backed up in literature, that one can gain up to 0.5lb of muscle weekly during their first year of effective training. Now, since I was rarely gaining weight while training and since I have a large noticeable body fat with a large waist and huge love handles while I am 6’1 and weigh only 187lbs, it is reasonable to a assume that I didn’t put that much muscle mass during my novice training. Can I still gain a substantial amount of muscle mass, like with a rate of 0.5lb/weekly in 6 months or a year, assuming I start maintaining or bulking then?

4

Yes, you can likely still make more strength gains.

Sure, usually for a brief period of time.

I don’t really see the benefit here when viewing your training over the long-term.

Not necessarily, no.

I don’t think it’s worth speculating about this, since most of that sort of data in the literature is based on AVERAGE responses to training, and we know that there are huge ranges of inter-individual variation in training responsiveness.