I wonder if you came across someone that has a very, VERY uneven press movement overhead. When she’s lifting the left side of the bar is about half way up when the right side of the bar is locked, and the whole torso rotates so the left side of the bar is behind her back and the right side of the bar is in front of the body. She’s doing a strict press, so not knee / leg movement at all. But she can’t press it evenly.
She’s 13 years old, extremely athletic, international-level athlete (cadet age group) and the press is not associated with any pain. She’s doing 35kg for 5 reps which is quite strong for a 13 years old female.
I have a video and if you think it’s needed I will ask her if I can upload it over here - but my question is also general about such cases. Why it usually happens, is it a problem, is there a fix to that?
In terms of pain - most of the time she’s not sore in general, she doesen’t have any shoulder, elbow, back pain etc - not during / following the press and not in general.
This issue is ongoing for about 12 months now, she has never pressed evenly but now when she’s more confident and adapted to weight training so she’s doing a heavy set every now and then - it’s more exagerrated than before. But at no point she has ever pressed “correct” when the set was at RPE, say, 6 or higher.
I think this is likely a situation relating to coordination during a growth phase. As you know, adolescents hit growth spurts and that requires changes to the muscles and tendons, in addition to the bone. The nervous system has to adapt as well to produce smooth, coordinated, efficient movements. I suspect this may be what’s going on at the limit, especially if she’s allowed to have that much movement during the OHP. One of the reasons the OHP was removed from olympic weightlifting had to do with judging difficulties. I’m wondering if this would also happen with a more strict variation of the press.
Two things I’d want to know:
What program is she on? (Forgive me, I see 5’s and OHP and my mind goes…)
Does this happen on bench press too at similar relative loads? (not definitive, but would help support the coordination idea)
I coach her and the program is mine. She’s training 4 times/week and every session include the squat, press, bench press, chinups. Deadlift twice/week. Every sessin include 3 sets of each exercise, at 5 reps (monday) / 8 reps (wednesday) / 3 reps (friday) / 6 reps (saturday). When the RPE goes under 7, we go up in load. The thought process is that since most of her meets are at friday, every ~4 weeks, i prefer her to miss the 3’s which is the smallest amount of work. The techniques are similar to the mechanics at the starting strength book, but with small changes (the press is done with a stretch reflex at the bottom).
The deadlift is done twice/week for 2 sets of 5 reps, same RPE target of 7.
So far it works good in terms of strength gains.
The assymetry is also in the bench press but less extreme - nothing is “screaming”. Squats, deadlifts, chinups are normal.
Regarding the growth phase, all I can say is that I coached hundreds of boys and girls her age with these exercises and never seen such a thing, so it sounds odd to me that it’s part of a normal growth phase we all go through (but it does sound logically to me).
What do you mean by “if she’s allowed to have that much movement overhead”. Why wouldn’t she be allowed? Is it bad for any reason?
I would not suspect arm length asymmetry, as this is relatively rare and would show up elsewhere, though anything is possible. A grip width asymmetry is more likely, though I assume you’re watching that. An underlying shoulder issue is also possible, though less likely without pain.
I do like the progression model, but I would prefer far more exercise variety and, depending on her sport, likely less RT during the season. I do think having a lot of freedom in the press with respect to movement is good for pressing heavier weights overhead, though I think there’s generally less strength transference this way vs a more strict version, especially with this much repetition. Is the movement bad? Depends what someone means by bad (and good). I just think if the goal is pressing strength in general, a more strict press is probably better, particularly within the context of more variation. I would also not do them with a stretch reflex at the bottom, which could also be contributory.
In terms of grip width, when she’s doing a symmetric grip width it’s worse that taking the left hand ~1 inch wider. So after about 4-5 months of trying it with a symmetric grip I gave up and let her take the left hand wider and now it’s better but still far from “normal”.
In terms of exercise variety - I agree, but since the gym time is very limited (she’s a swimmer) and also include some flexibillity stretches for specific movements needed in swimming, than I have to limit her to a few exercises. I would also not suspect a shoulder issue if she can do intense swimming sessions for ~02:30 hours/day without pain.
Regarding the press - I would definately change her to a “dead stop” at the bottom, good idea. I coached her to press without hip/knee movement so that would be considered a strict press, isn’t it?
One thought is that if she is fatigued from the swimming, she may be “self-organizing” (her technique) into what’s most efficient for her available resources, i.e. anthropometry, leverages, constraints of the movement, and so on. Then again, the unilateral nature of this isn’t as clean of an explanation as I’d like…despite humans being messy.
Regarding the variety, I would want to want to rotate between ~3-4 different squat, press, hinge, and pull variants each 1-2 weeks to build a broader base of physical development while decreasing risk of overuse. I suspect this could be done in the same time within the gym.
Your last question regarding the strict press definition can be expanded to pretty much all exercises, where most constraints are arbitrary and by convention. In the press for example, is layback, but no knee bend, strict? If so, how much layback is allowed before it becomes “something else”? Is only the feet together, back against a vertical wall version of the press a “strict” version?
Existential crises aside, I think minimal layback, no rebound, and no knee bend is the strict variant, whereas any real appreciable layback would be the “olympic” version discussed here:
