I’m new to the Starting Strength world; I’ve read The Barbell Prescription, Starting Strength, and Practical Programming.
I’m 67, healthy and fit, but have always been skinny (“runner’s build”) and am going to have one last try at putting on some muscle.
I found Jordan’s exposition on nutrition very educational and appreciate his knowledge and scientific approach.
However one statement caught me by surprise - that we absorb 100%, -or more! - of the protein we ingest.
That would require 100% digestive and assimilative efficiency; why assume that?
I’m pretty sure that doesn’t apply to me (I believe that’s one of my problems with gaining weight), nor do I see why it would be assumed for anybody/everybody.
Also, I wouldn’t think that if that were the case that so many organisms would find poop so nutritious.
That would require 100% digestive and assimilative efficiency; why assume that?
I’m not assuming that, but rather that’s the efficiency level of an intact human GI system…even for you. You just do it slower and the amino acids don’t get to the muscles as fast.
I believe that’s one of my problems with gaining weight
Unless you have daily bouts of vomiting and diarrhea, the more likely scenario is requiring more calories.
Also, I wouldn’t think that if that were the case that so many organisms would find poop so nutritious.
Its got a lot of dead cells, waste products, and some carbs and fats (minimal). <6g of protein makes it there on average for someone eating a high amount of dietary protein.
Oops, after a couple of days I forgot to check back.
Thanks for the response.
I’m not assuming that, but rather that’s the efficiency level of an intact human GI system…even for you.
Not to be a PITA, but I am the annoying skeptical type - if it’s not an assumption, there must be data; can you point me to some?
I guess I don’t have an intact GI, because for sure I can’t always digest everything I eat. Presumably it’s then fair game for my gut bacteria, which I imagine are producing the accompanying gas.
Also, if the assimilative part were true, why would there be such a thing as a hard gainer?
Assuming a caloric excess accompanies the surfeit of protein, where has the protein gone if it’s not excreted and not in new muscle?
Maybe my gut bacteria have used it for energy and/or growth?
Sure. Protein absorption capacity is pretty much unlimited. There’s a nice chapter section about it in Gropper’s Advanced Human Nutrition and Metabolism.
Originally posted by Noah KatzView Post
I guess I don’t have an intact GI, because for sure I can’t always digest everything I eat. Presumably it’s then fair game for my gut bacteria, which I imagine are producing the accompanying gas.
Say which? There are several things there, all of which I believe to be true from personal experience.
I guess the most questionable part is the last; if that’s what you’re referring to and disagree with, what do you propose is the source of gas accompanying indigestion?
I suppose that’s a bit circular, as gas one of the main symptoms I attribute to indigestion.
Besides that there’s a general blech feeling, and if I’ve really overeaten to an extreme, later my urine will sting on the way out (presumably from acidity) and occasionally be cloudy.
All of this is to say that I find it hard to agree with your estimation of people’s digestive efficiency, because it’s not just me, based on the number of digestive aids and remedies sold.
That’s still part of digestion and also not a reliable way to assess absorption/digestion. If it was, we’d not spend thousands of dollars per test subject doing radiolabeled nutrient assays and instead just ask them how much they’re farting.
Average incidence of flatus per day per individual is 14 times to the tune of about 4-5 liters per day. In addition to that, any dietary change(s), antibiotic use, geographic change, etc. can all change the bacterial composition of the large intestine for a period of time.
Indigestion is not a diagnosis and would need to be further teased out. In other words, if it’s abdominal pain vs. reflux-type experiences those are very different- neither of which suggesting poor digestion or absorption (in general).
That is unreliable.
If I had a person with cloudy urine that caused pain during micturition, poor digestion would not be as high on my differential as, say, chlamydia.
That is an interesting way to think about things and I find the logic to be suspect. Fortunately, we are not entitled to our own facts and thus, you should change your mind.
That is an interesting way to think about things and I find the logic to be suspect. Fortunately, we are not entitled to our own facts and thus, you should change your mind.
Not sure what my non-facts are.
I presume you aren’t saying that I and other people with digestive difficulties don’t in fact have them, but that perhaps they don’t count as indigestion because we can still assimilate what’s in there, and aren’t an impediment to muscle building?
What you have said about human digestive and absorptive processes are wrong.
I can’t comment on your “digestive difficulties” because I am not your doctor and I don’t have the necessary information to build a differential and work it up as needed. You have not done that either, but have decided you don’t absorb food very well despite not having any evidence of this. Not sure what else to say here.
Your subjective perception of dietary intake level is unreliable, just like everyone else’s. We have no reason to believe that if you are in a caloric surplus for an extended period of time that you won’t gain weight in a predictable manner.
No. I said healthy human subjects do not have significant malabsorption deficits for protein. We are very good at that.
Digestive difficulties is not a diagnosis and thus cannot be studied, treated, etc. Given your report, I cannot say for certain, but it is unlikely you have any issue digesting or absorbing anything.
Digestive difficulties is not a diagnosis and thus cannot be studied, treated, etc. Given your report, I cannot say for certain, but it is unlikely you have any issue digesting or absorbing anything.
I didn’t say it was a diagnosis, but regardless, why can’t it be studied like innumerable other health issues have been?
Why can’t what be studied? You have to be specific when you’re doing research in order to learn anything. “Digestive difficulties” is too poorly defined (not defined at all) to reliably gather subjects, apply interventions, and study outcomes.
You have to be specific when you’re doing research in order to learn anything.
Now that you mention it, lack of specificity is a behind a lot of my questions.
Let’s back up a bit:
That would require 100% digestive and assimilative efficiency; why assume that?
[Jordan] I’m not assuming that, but rather that’s the efficiency level of an intact human GI system…even for you. You just do it slower and the amino acids don’t get to the muscles as fast
What are the characteristics of the study population tested to reach the above conclusion?
number of subjects
age distribution
did it include ectomorphic individuals such as myself
did it include complaining of digestive difficulties (define it however you like) individuals such as myself
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to question if the results are applicable to me if the sample population consisted solely of strapping 20-something successfully strength-trained athletes.
The sample populations include exactly your demographic. It is unreasonable to continue down this path of discussion if you’re unwilling to change your mind.
The sample populations include exactly your demographic.
Fair enough; that wasn’t clear to me before.
Thanks for your patience.
In the future I’ll try to keep my questions more practical; this one was more of academic interest, because no matter what the studies say, in the end my gut is my gut.
- of the protein we ingest.