My deadlift is a mess and I am pretty much over the frustration. I doubt my 1RM max has moved in at least 2 years after climbing pretty quickly. Over that time, I have asked for form checks, watched videos until I was blue in the face, read articles and did different accessory lifts. I am 47 and I have had a couple of setbacks with vacations that have set back strength and a few injuries. That being said I am still sure I should not be in the same spot I was in 2 years ago. Last time I tried pulling a 1rm it was 375lbs and recently about 5 weeks ago pulled 370lbs without a lot of issues. It was probably about 9 to 9.5 so I was getting much else out of it.
While I have not really tested them I am sure my other lifts have progressed some at least. For example, two days ago I did a squat at 360 that I would have put at 8. Last time I tried my 1rm was 370 and it was a struggle so I really think the squat is going up.
I have 2 weeks left on a hypertrophy template and plan to do it again. After looking at a couple of articles I think I am going to switch to Sumo to see if that lift is just better for me. Maybe less on my back and more on quads will be good for the lift. I do not compete but I have considered it and really who doesnāt want to progress. I like pulling conventional but just over the frustration with it.
So I have seen several videos and read articles but if anyone has some extra tips for a beginner, I would appreciate it.
I did conventional during LP, but switched to sumo when I went to the bridge and Iāve stuck with it. For me it was all about anthropometry. Iām built like the male version of Niki Sims - all legs and very short torso. With a conventional deadlift my shoulders are almost lower than my hips. That being said, after about two months of sumo Iām just about even in both lifts. Iām sticking with sumo because I feel I have the potential to get stronger that way, but logistically I like conventional better. What I mean is that when I set up conventional my shins are on the smooth part of the bar. For sumo my shins are on the knurling so Iāve had more issues scraping them up. On conventional my hands stay outside my legs, but on sumo they cross over my thighs at the top of the lift. This is something Iāve struggled with as my thighs catch my fingers and try to open up my hands.
Greg Nuckols did an article on sumo vs. conventional and points out there isnāt really a strength difference between the two:
My thought would be that it wouldnāt hurt you to try it and you may be better at it, but if your deadlift is stuck itās probably more of a programming issue.
Yes!!! That is actually one of the articles Iāve read. Yes it may be stuck for other reasons but Iāve changed programming and nothing really seem to work. What I hoping is since the sumo lift is more quad and less back that ultimately Iāll be stronger in it.
One of the problems I know I have is at heavy weights I lift my hips first which leans me forward a bit. Iāve yet to be able to correct this and even videoed a 350lbs lift today and yes was still doing it.
Worth giving sumo a try. I deadlift conventional, but whenever I try sumo for a lark I always find that it seems to be about as good as my conventional. Anecdotally, a lot of sumo pullers experience reasonable carryover, so it isnāt like your work has been wasted. I have to deadlift on bumpers on a wonky platform so the bar moves around and I find resetting sumo on rep work a bit more annoying than conventional, which is the only reason I havenāt more seriously tried switching.
I agree this is probably more of a programming issue (the general BBM templates may not be appropriate for you if youāre not responding well). A good coach could probably help a lot if you have the finances. But if you need a psychological break from pulling conventional, by all means try sumo, itās not inferior at all.
Iām not an expert in programming, but I suspect there isnāt enough squatting in the hypertrophy program to get much stronger on the long run. This will affect your DL as well. I found the hypertrophy program ārefreshingā so to say and itās good for programming it in-between. But for real strength gains, I think you need to combine / alternate it with something else. Nevertheless, my DL improved on this template (180kg ā 195kg). Itās only 8 weeks and it is not itās primary purpose so it is actually more than I expected. I didnāt gain anything significant on the squat.
What about your food and sleep? What if you switch to a strength specific program? Sumo might help but in essence it is as heavy as a regular DL.
When you say your ādeadlift is a messā, what do you mean exactly? If itās a lack of progress in the pull thatās non-form related, or you have an extreme anthropometry where your hips are higher than your shoulders at the bottom of the pull, switching to sumo may not add many more pounds to your pull and youāll probably run into the same issues you are now.
I dont know your situation, but I suspect for you, your preference against pulls fueled by your frustration from perceived lack of progress with them is the negative feedback loop thatās making pulling a nightmare.
In other words, you hate pulls because they suck/they feel bad/they arenāt progressing as fast as you think they should (and you are probably justified in that), and so, with a negative preference for them, you dispassionately pull. And they suck, just like you thought they would. That kind of thing just gets worse and worse over time until you say enough.
If thatās the case, really the the only way over this hump is to actually pull conventional more often and sort of drill them and work on your bias against them, despite everything. Or you choose to switch to sumo and hope you donāt run into the same issues. Thereās no way to garauntee you wonāt and I would probably recommend the former over the latter.
Having said all that, whatās ultimately at stake here is your level of compliance with your training and if continuing to pull conventional is seriously messing with that to the point where you want to stop training the deadlift, then switching to sumo might help you feel good about pulling again.
Actually I think the BBM templates have helped. I was doing 5/3/1 before and I switched to BBM with the bridge then did the HLM and now doing the hypertrophy. My last week of HLM I pulled 370LBS (not a lot I know) which is only 5 lbs under my last know 1rm and it went up easy enough I think I could have pulled more than 375lbs. My squat and bench seem to be doing better than deadlift though.
I would consider a coach but like I said I am not competing and even if I do at some point it will really just be for the experience. So I am not sure I can justify the cost of a coach. I would just like to be able to pull 400+.
I asked about the strength part in another thread and was told you could but it would be slower. I have run the HLM template and the bridge and was doing 5/3/1 before that. I wanted to run the hypertrophy again because it was like you said a bit refreshing and being older I felt better. Plus I have a couple of trips I have to do coming up and didnāt want them to fall in the middle of the HLM. I figured it was also a good time to switch with slightly lighter weights and more volume to give me exposer to it and try and work out the bugs to see how I like it before doing it in the HLM template.
I do think the HLM and hypertrophy template have helped my squat though. The last known 1rm for squat was 370lbs and just a couple of days ago I put 365lbs up at what I would have called an 8. Usually I like to take the last week of the templates and use the heavy singles to push to see where I am at. So I will kind of ignore the @8 part go for something in the 9 to 10 range. So next week I may load 375-380 on the bar to see where I am at.
Sleep is fine I usually get around 6-7 hours a night during the week. My diet is a mess right now but frankly I have eaten like crap and eaten well and it has not effected it either way. I need to clean that up though and get my act together because I do need to lose fat.
You are right the weight is still the same but I have been reading quite a bit on the differences and I am just wondering if putting more focus on my quads and less on my back would help.
A mess meaning it hasnāt progressed past a certain point. Like I said there have been a couple of set backs with a back tweak and a long vacation that set me back on strength but I was able to build back up to a point and then get stuck again. So for example my last known 1rm was 375lbs and that was probably about a 1 1/12 years ago. Maybe I could do a little more now but not much. My other lifts arenāt crazy better either but I do feel I am stronger in them and can see progression. At this point particularly on multiple reps my squat outpaces my DL. I had/have a goal of wanting to DL 400+ and really think at this point I should have hit it or at least be closer. In the grand scheme of things for my size 5ā10 about 235lbs (this is heavy though I should be more like 215lbs which is what I weighed the last time I lifted that) 400lbs is not a major weight to be lifting or at least I donāt think it is.
So I am wondering if it is just a mechanics issue Iāve been unable to fix or I am better suited for sumo.
A mess meaning it hasnāt progressed past a certain point. Like I said there have been a couple of set backs with a back tweak and a long vacation that set me back on strength but I was able to build back up to a point and then get stuck again. So for example my last known 1rm was 375lbs and that was probably about a 1 1/12 years ago. Maybe I could do a little more now but not much. My other lifts arenāt crazy better either but I do feel I am stronger in them and can see progression. At this point particularly on multiple reps my squat outpaces my DL. I had/have a goal of wanting to DL 400+ and really think at this point I should have hit it or at least be closer. In the grand scheme of things for my size 5ā10 about 235lbs (this is heavy though I should be more like 215lbs which is what I weighed the last time I lifted that) 400lbs is not a major weight to be lifting or at least I donāt think it is.
So I am wondering if it is just a mechanics issue Iāve been unable to fix or I am better suited for sumo.
As Greg Nuckols says, the only way to know if one works better for you than another is to give it a try. Iāve pulled 503 conventional and 505 sumo. I think they are about the same for me. However, I pull sumo as my competition lift now because I have a compromised back. Sumo lets me attack the lift more aggressively without fear for my back. That being said, unless you really have the anthropometry issue of hips higher than shoulders at setup, you should be able to progress with either conventional or sumo. Increasing your strength isnāt a mysterious thing. You perform a volume of challenging sets in the 70-80% intensity range. When you stall, you lower the intensity a bit and increase the volume to increase your work capacity, then increasing the intensity back to 70-80% range. When you want to test your strength, you decrease the volume substantially and increase the intensity, moving towards sets in the mid-80s%, with singles at an 8 RPE or ~92%. Obviously, many of us use heavy single to gauge movements in e1RM while we are doing lower intensity work, as well.
Gotcha. I mean thereās a lot that could be going on here obviously and I havenāt seen your programming or form, but if pulling conventional is going to effect your training compliance and you believe switching to sumo will help, I say go for it.
Having said that, you very well may run into the problems your having now with sumo once the weight gets heavy enough. What program/template are you using currently? And would you be willing to post a form check so we could check that box? I know youāve submitted them in the past, but perhaps not on here
Currently I am using the Hypertrophy 3 day template. I ran HLM before that and Bridge before that. Before those I was doing 5/3/1. I plan to run the hypertrophy again and then go back to HLM. Iāll see what I can do about a video. I have one but the angle is not great and because of the power rack you canāt see how close to the bar I am. I used to work out at home but now that I am in a gym itās a little more difficult cause I workout alone.
Here is one thing I will say about form check videos. People usually find problems in them (at least mine) problem is when I have watched videos of guys at meets lifting near max to max weights I see them doing some of the same things I am. Lifting hips early, rounded backs both upper and lower and other issues. It seems like a lot of people have form issues at the bigger weights but they still progress and are not stuck in the sub 400s.
