I’m aware of BBM’s stance on overtraining (i.e. that it doesn’t exist based on lack of scientific literature validating it). What confused me is that in the programming podcast, you guys mentioned the idea of amount of training as a bell curve:
If you make somebody so sore and you overwhelm their ability to tolerate the training that you just gave them they actually will have a diminished hypertrophy response, so I view this is actually kind of like bell curve. So it sounds to me it sounds to me like you’re suggesting that our solution to all training problems is not in fact to increase the amount of stress and volume that people are doing—there’s some nuance there.
and the tanning analogy:
This sun exposure sort of analogy that training is just like tanning. If you went out to the sun and you’re very pale skinned and you go to the sun for two hours, the first time you get burnt it’s too much stress for you to recover from. So, you only went out for twenty minutes but then you have to gradually increase that stress over time now at a point when you get super, super tan your recovery rate is at an all-time high. You are the most resistant to the effects of the sun, so you need more exposure, not less, if you wanted to get even more tan.
To me, I would have thought that being on the right-hand side of the bell curve (too much stress) and getting burnt in the sun (also too much stress) would be classified as “overtraining” since it’s too much of a stress to drive the desired adaptation. But then I realized that it depends on the definition of overtraining.
So when you say that “overtraining” doesn’t exist in resistance training, are you referring to overtraining syndrome (OTS) or are you referring to overtraining as too much of a stress to drive adaptation? I always thought “overtraining” was the latter (I had no idea the concept of “overtraining syndrome” was a thing), so I was confused as to what definition of “overtraining” was being referred to.
I don’t mean to hijack this conversation, but I’ve definitely been wondering the exact same thing and want to clarify a few things.
When you said in one of your youtube videos (rough quote here), “I don’t think overtraining exists in powerlifting. The only risk is that you get too strong,” were you referring to overtraining syndrome specifically, not non functional overreaching?
To be absolutely clear, you do in fact think non functional overreaching exists?
Do you think that non functional overreaching is possible to occur from a BBM template (especially with overshooting RPE), or do you think that non functional overreaching only occurs in rare outlier cases from poorly written programs?
How do you personally walk the line between appropriate fatigue and non functional overreaching in your own training? How do you recognize when you are TOO fatigued and would be better served by “letting some steam out of the kettle” instead of increasing fatigue even more?
Thanks for the link. Generally speaking, if someone has plateaued on a lift (even with adequate sleep, protein, etc.) and they want to add some volume at a relative useful intensity to try and break the plateau, how would you decide how much volume to add so they don’t add too much volume and overreach but at the same time add enough volume in order to break the plateau? I realize this would vary widely based on the trainer and his or her history, but are there any guidelines, heuristics, or methods you prefer? I saw that Greg Nuckols has some guidelines like: decrease intensity 5-15% and increase training volume 20-50% over 2-4 months, or decrease volume for main lifts and increase volume of accessory lifts. (https://www.strongerbyscience.com/in…work-capacity/)
Yes, though hard outcomes need to be pre-defined. An example: Say a powerlifter does a ton of isolation work to failure for 6 weeks. He gains a bit of LBM, but his 1RM does not go up. One of his training outcomes improved -LBM, and one did not- maximal strength.
Yes. No program is universally appropriate for all-comers, so it’s likely that this occurs in some folks.
It depends on the context, e.g. what type of training I’m doing and where in the block I am. I do a lot more accessory work during GPP and developmental phases than in specialization or sports form phases, for example. I’m cool with more “non functional overreaching” during a developmental phase, in general. That said, if I start to see a noticeable decline in performance while my training stimulus is relatively high or has been increasing, I dial it back a bit.
Obviously, previous experience with others and personal bias is huge here, but there are no evidence-based protocols for absolute increases/changes that reliably work here
Thanks very much. I think I follow, but when you say, “I’m cool with more “non functional overreaching” during a developmental phase, in general” do you mean:
A. You more aggressively flirt with the line between too much and too little stress but are still ideally not crossing the line on purpose. You’re just willing to take more risk.
B. You purposely are trying for non productive overreaching, but only in regards to strength outcome. That is to say, the overreaching is non-functional for strength, but it is “functional” for hypertrophy outcome. (not sure if you can call a hypertophy outcome “functional” since the word “functional” seems to connote performance specifically.)
As a follow-up to this topic of avoiding non functional overreaching, I generally find I am pretty wiped from your programming around week 4-6 once the volume has ramped up to a max. I also often still feel pretty beat-up even after the low stress week that usually follows. As such, I have recently attempted a slightly more aggressive “deload” strategy in the low stress week afterward where I drop the RPE 1 point or more as needed in the low stress week. I have only done this once now, but it worked very well, and I feel like I got my feet back under me and am ready for the second phase of the program.
Should I not be doing this because I’m undoing all the hard work I just did to accumulate fatigue, or is this sort of strategy appropriate and the whole point of autoregulation?
I think your approach is fine, though I’d be curious to see how the outcomes pan out using both approaches. That said, feeling ready to train for the next block is really the goal of the deload week so, it sounds like what you’re doing is working well!
Is overreaching always accompanied by a noticeable decline in performance? Or, is it possible to be plateaued for a long period of time, see no noticeable decline in performance, and actually be overreaching?
If that’s the case–in the absence of a noticeable decline in performance and in a plateau–how would you know if you’re underreaching or overreaching? Do you just look at your training history and try to guess if you’ve ramped up things too quickly or not enough?
You won’t know until later on, when either more or less fitness adaptations are present secondary to your training…which is what you’d do anyway as a coach or lifter reviewing progress.
To be clear, I spend zero time thinking about or worrying about overreaching or overtraining with myself or clients. Most people are undertrained.
Is there evidence supporting the assertion that most people who actively engage in resistance training are under trained or is this mostly anecdotal evidence from clients you’ve trained?