Training with multiple sclerosis & type 1 diabetes

Tldr- diseased (*canadian here, so i have access to my ‘free’ neurologist, endocrinologist, psychiatrist as needed), running through The Bridge 1.0 for a second time, tempo squats are terribly fatigueing (ms) but weight feels light, is there an alternative to swap it out with or could i split volume over more sets (1 set for 8 reps = 2 sets for 4 reps)?

First off, let me say great website & forum-- the information i have been learning here (and previously Starting Strength) has helped me go literally from zero lbs total on the big 3 to over 900 in a little over 2 years. If you want to save time just stick with the tldr; the rest of this post will be a rambling mess regarding my lifting and health history.

Diagnosed type 1 diabetic @ 15 years old (2003), didnt start lifting until 2007. Followed the usual trash peddled by tnation or bodybuilding.com for a ‘solid’ 7-8 years and showed some body compositional change but squat never broke 185 and deadlift barely peaked over 225, benching and the press were never seen in my routine during this time because '“dumbells provide greater ROM and are safer and blah blah blah”. Throughout highschool and my undergrad i was average in height and weight (5’10" @165lbs), never particularly strong, muscular or fat, and had the 'betes in mild control (a1c between 8-8.5). Fast forward to 2016 where i am done my research for my masters and am editing my thesis when I lose all proprioperception in my right arm & hand, develop transient paralysis in my right leg, and am battered by extreme fatigue and cognitive fog. Being a guy (aka-an idiot) i sleep on it and tell my then girlfriend “it will go away”. Things improved mildly over a couple of months during which i finally get ct scan (my GP had kept saying it was anxiety…) and result come bacķ-- i had a stroke! Or so the image was interpreted as; after a second scan with contrast dye my diagnosis is updated to two strokes!

I ‘temporarily’ dropped out of school, joined a stroke survivor club and for the next three months i rehabed with people two to three times my age. Things were improving both physically and mentally. During this time i got back to 225 deadlift and 185 squat. My GP, in all his wisdom, put me on peroxetine for my presumed anxiety. Then life decided things were going to good for me; i developed vertigo so severe i couldnt open my eyes without vomiting. 1 mri later i got a proper diagnosis- relapse remitting ms. It was good to know wtf was goin on up in the ol’ noodle but my health continued to unravel. The transient paralysis returned; my left leg refusing to listen at ever more frequent intervals. The vertigo remained and worsened; the only position i could remain in without throwing up every few minutes was on the right side (this limited my vomitting to approximately every hour). The cog fog was so severe i was apparently, according to family, unintelligible. I made daily trips to the local ER for my iv rehydration, my blood pressure dropping to numbers such as 90/50 due to dehydration. This went on for 6 weeks non stop. Suffice to say i had lots of time to sit (lay?) and ponder life.

For those who find MS foreign to their life experience, be assured it is pretty awful. The treatments almost equally so! First thing done during a relapse (when your immune system decides to eat a lil’ bit of your brain) is a massive infusion of corticostroids to lessen the immune response and prevent further damage to the insulating sheath on ones nerve cells. This also has the unfortunate effect of making your body extremely resistant to insulin! Corticosteroid pulse therapy is done over 3 days; I had this done 4 or 5 times because i was non responsive to it with regard to MS. I developed new brain lesions (as identified by mri imaging) & symptoms while my blood sugars went on an exciting journey to an average level of 20mmol/L (the resistance to insulin being the only noted effect the corticosteroids had on me). Eventually my neurologist and I decided to pull out the big guns and we nuked my immune system with some casual chemotherapy (cyclophosphamide, also called cytoxan because hearing dr’s want to inject you with what sounds like ‘toxin’ is very reassuring).

This whole ordeal saw my weight drop about 30lbs, from 174 to 142. I was so damn skinny that sitting in a bathtub hurt. The minute i felt decent enough to go out without throwing up i would grab my walker, naturally borrowed from my grandmother, and attempt laps around the neighnourhood. When i could make it around the block without feeling like i was run over i started to walk to the rehabilitation gym i frequented with the stroke survivors. When i could make it there without feeling awful i would add in some resistance exercise and balance work. When my balance improved such that i could stand unaided i added in squats and deadlifts. It was disheartening but not unsurprising to be unable to even lift the bar at this point (this time period is what i am referring to as my zero total on the big 3). When i wasnt attempting my self rehab i would frequent the SS youtube channel to learn all i could about proper form and progression. This led me to alan thrall, which led me to Dr Baraki, and ultimately barbell medicine.

The SSNLP ended for me with my 1rm press @ 105, bench @ 205, deadlift @ 295, squat @ 275. I kinda muddled around for 6 months not knowing what to do, my weights improved mildly during this time but the increases were hardly worth celebrating. 3 months back i finally explored the barbell medicine website and found the free bridge 1.0 program. This was my first experience with RPE and i absolutely under rated everything, the first week was a nightmare despite it being ‘low intensity’. I feel i got better at rating sets over the following 8 weeks of the program and at the end my 1rm improved remarkably: press @ 140lbs, bench @ 240lbs, squat @ 325 lbs, deadlift @ 355 lbs. I currently weigh in at 188.5lbs, height 5’10".

Now, going through the bridge a second time i am once again face to face with my greatest nemesis-- the tempo squat. I do appreciate it for helping me pay close attention to my body mechanics during the lift but the prescribed 8 reps are a little outside my capacity to maintain the tempo and quality of form. Simply reducing the weight is not overly helpful as i found doing the bar, 135, or 185 are equally taxing on me with regard to full body fatigue around rep 4 or 5. Would it be ‘acceptable’ to split the sets of 8 into sets of 4 and double the number of sets (8 reps x 1 set becomes 4 reps x 2 sets) such that volume is the same but i can give my body a break? Is there an alternative to this lift the i could plug in?

Well if you read this far, thank you! If anyone is going to offer some sagely wisdom on alternative treatments for MS or some anecdote please do me a favour and write it on a piece of paper and eat it. Your toilet will ultimately receive it better than i would.

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Hi there

Sorry to hear about your long and difficult journey, but I’m really glad to hear you’ve found benefit from training and from our material. To answer your question, it is absolutely appropriate to adjust the tempo squat selection for your individual needs. There isn’t a “right” or “wrong” variation to choose in that slot, I’d just choose something that you tolerate well – be it a low bar squat, high bar squat, belt squat, front squat, leg press, whatever. It will all be fine :slight_smile:

Your last paragraph cracked me up. Good luck with your training!

Hey Austin- thanks for the feedback! As i do enjoy the tempo squat i was wondering if you had comments on splitting the 8 reps up into 2 smaller sets? I presume the fear here would be me putting to much weight on the bar, but could i not avoid this by 1) ignoring the ego, and 2) setting timed rest periods such that the addititve fatigue over the many sets would prevent me going to to heavy?

And something i have been chewing on for a while is the effect of diabetes on testosterone levels; a lot of what i have come across in literature seems related largely to type 2 diabetics (i presume because the bulk of the research is coming from the ol’ U.S. of A, home of the obese and free to have their cake and eat it too). Would you, or dr feigenbaum… or anyone with an informed opinion, care to share your opinion on this and its relevance to type 1 diabetics? I do have a multitude of symptoms that are similar to low T (lethargy/fatigue, low lobido, cog-fog), but they are all presumed due to the MS; is this rabbit hole worth exploring considering my tests are all ‘free’ (yay socialized healthcare!) as cost was commonly a stated concern in BBMs low T video… podcast… thing…?

Thanks for your time here on the forums, much appreciated!

Again, if that strategy allows you to train more consistently/productively, I think it would be fine. I wouldn’t have “fears” about you putting too much weight on the bar if you continue to use RPE targets.

I’m not aware of effects of T1DM on testosterone levels, but it is very common for test levels to be affected in individuals with various immune/inflammatory disorders (which could include MS). If you feel those symptoms, it would be reasonable to get a screening test by measuring a total testosterone level between 8-10 AM.

Hello again! Gotta say i am really enjoying the exciting back and forth between Dr Feigenbaum & the internet troll, makes for some bizarre but amusing reading. If anyone is reading this and hasn’t read that you should stop now and check it.

On an actual sub-forum relevant topic; on the bridge 1.0 i ran it ‘as is’ but now, my second time around, i am considering swapping a few things mildly around to accomodate my thrilling fatigue symptoms. So far i asked about the tempo squat; i split the tempo squats up such that every set of 8 is now 2 sets of 4; this worked great the past two weeks as i could focus on the mechanics of the squat and my body didnt turn into a pile of limp sludge towards the end. As long as i dont push myself to the point of fatigue induced nausea i found the rest periods could be easily kept short, so keeping the same weight as before (working sets of 185, had to side step rpe for this one) for the 4 sets of 4 (as opposed to 2 sets of 8) takes me less time than the 2 sets of 8 would have. I am somewhat curious how changing the rep/set scheme but maintaining weight, overall volume, and duration of exercise (may not be totally precise but i feel i spend more time under the bar and less resting in this modified scheme as i can maintain the tempo instead of letting things slip towards the end of the set as fatigue worsens) would impact strength, hypertrophy or endurance.

second, day 1 of the program always falls on a Monday for me. I like to imagine the competition squat was put on this day as it is when we (or rather I) should be rested and ready to kill it. I generally feel decent getting into the gym on this day and going through the warm up for the squat but i am noticing i feel… fresher (?)… on tuesdays when i would do the beltless squat variation. Would it be appropriate to swap the competition squat to tuesday and do the beltless variation on Mondays or is it best to grind it out early in the week as it is currently organized? I hesitate to do this on my own volition as once i start changing the program it is not necessarily the same program… if you follow. And to answer the obvious theory-- i am not hungover on Mondays from weekend binge drinking due to my persistent smothering fatigue that worsens around 1-3pm & alcohol just making my these symptoms fascinatingly worse. Rather, i feel more conditioned or… functional… after having a day of training under my weekly belt.

if parts of this are nonsense i apologise, i have reread it several times but the brain isnt behaving itself right now.