I am going to tell you again all my story, because I can .Well no I am kidding,I just want to give you all the “data” because I really appreciate your judgement.
I am 23 and as a child i was really active.When i was 17 i stopped all my activities for one year because i was studying for the university.I remember after the exams that all my right side from the neck to the hip,even the fingers of my right hand and the right calf had a minor pain,across the right ribs too but it didnt bothered me and i was not thinking of it.I thought because i was sitting so long i needed a massage(I didnt know much back then :P,not that i know now).The next year,one day my upper back started to pop every time i was taking a breath i went to a doctor and told me its nothing to worrie about so i continued my life without fear .After 2 years i started to work out at the gym.I still had that clicking and poping thing going on (it was like that there was a spot in my upper back and i felt like something is touching my spine from the inside).One day i was doing deadlifts with crap form and while i was lowering the weight (with rounding thoracic) i took a breathe,the clicked happened and it felt like a rupture but then i had no pain,only a bigger discomfort in this area.I went to another doctor who told me something about ribs(kyphosis) and gave me a stretch on a ball.After that stretch i was perfect like everything went into place, well i had a little clicking but i didnt care.That summer i was training like crazy (bro splits :().One day this year I scared myself about this clicking and poping (+ I had the same pain like when i was 17) and went to an ortho and get an MRI which showed 2 bulging discs at T6-T7,T7-T8.After that i stopped training for one month and when i started again i did deadlifts with thoracic extension and this night i felt a niddle inside T7.Finally, went to another ortho who saw the mri and said this is nothing and told me this is because of the scoliosis (the twist in T7) and told me that i need to strenghthen my back muscles.And here we are today .The funny thing is that when i have the pain like when i was 17 (+clicking and poping) if i stretch the other way of my twist of my scoliosis i feel like something is moving and after a while all the pain is gone but emerges a needle in the middle of T7.The pain in the right side is viable but that needle is frustating.Now,I am better with physio (some strengthening exercises)but this is what is happening.
End of my story .
The thing that scared the hell out of me was the bulges in thoracic aera.I know that bulges are common and i might have 4 of them in my low back but wherever i searched (on the internet :() noone have one in thoracic aera and they say it is more dangerous because the spinal canal is very narrow up there (and mine are touching the spinal cord) (nocebo is real ).And the other thing that scares me is that the form for neutral back in deadlift (the 5 steps) are for straight spines.So how i can neutralize my T7 aera and not make the baulges bigger in this exercises?
As far as training goes.I keep going to the gym but have no program and no joy anymore because of my fear of the bulges.I do squats,deadlifts,bench,press and pull ups every training day (3-4 days a week)+soccer.I keep the intensity very low.I am 170cm,65kg with low body fat (Well I am only 65 kg ).I have never runned LP and maybe it is not suitable for me right now because it is intensity based.I have appreciable muscle mass and i’ve been always athletic with no serious weightlifting program.I am not saying this to brag about myself (there is nothing to brag about myself as you can see from above ) but i am frustrated.I stack doing squats and deads with weight like my body weight and even lower.If I train my own mother she can lift more than me.
All in all, I do not know what to ask you except the form of the lifts.Maybe i just want to tell my story. .Once again thank you docs.
P.S. i know that i am one of the best examples for doc Austin as far as nocebo and catastrophizing.
I agree that there is a whole lot of catastrophizing going on here. The good news is that you appear to have insight into it – in other words, you know that’s what you’re doing. This is an important first step in learning how to take control of it.
You continue to drastically over-interpret the significance of miscellaneous clicks, pops, and of the bulges themselves. Stop reading about them on the internet.
Given that you say “you have no joy anymore because of your fear of the bulges”, this is now a complex situation and you may need some professional help – either from a coach, a therapist, or both.
Perhaps other members of our community here can help as well.
After I hurt myself squatting 365 (incorrectly, I might add), I thought I would never lift heavy again. Lumbar disc bulge, degenerative arthritis. Standing on one foot could result in me throwing out my back for a week, or squatting 135. I discovered starting strength & barbell medicine and decided I would give it a shot. I started my LP very low, at 95 lbs out of fear of hurting my back, and added 5 lbs each time. I read the book (Starting Strength), all the articles, sought for form help on the forums, watched all the videos, etc. I didn’t assume I knew what I was doing, bc I didn’t, not even a little bit. Next week at a strengthlifting meet I will be trying for 430/195/450 - never dreamed I’d be where I’m at today. This s*** f***ing works. I’d say do the damn LP, do it right, and then utilize Barbell Medicine programming after - I’ve found as a post novice utilizing RPE and increasing volume has helped manage fatigue/injuries/pain more than anything else.
Whilst I am not in exactly the same position as you but I have a few issues that are sometimes ‘nocebo-ing’ me. Firstly, My dad has sheuerman’s disease and I was told that I am very susceptible to it too, and often my thoracic spine feels ‘stuck’ in kyphosis which makes squatting painful at times and deadlifting can be awkward. I also have shoulder issues (no one has ever been able to diagnose the real issue but I think it’s bicep tendonitis personally) which can mean sometimes I just can’t bench or have to do so with a weight that isn’t particularly productive. However, I train because of these issues. I don’t want to end up crippled and unable to do anything so I train whilst I still can to keep things healthy. I am not a doctor but a spine with a bulged disc that can deadlift 200kg is going to be healthier than a spine with a bulged disc that can’t.
Just start with what you can and go up from there - start doing the LP as it has really helped my shoulder and back!
A couple thoughts for you… First, obviously always rule out Medical, good news, it sounds as if you have actually done this which is awesome so you know that according to your ortho strengthening is what you need to do, looks like you are in the right place. Maybe it’s reminding yourself the doctor said your back was good and you are doing what you need to for the continued strength of your back by strength training. Sometimes people use positive self-talk for such things or meditation and mindfulness…maybe even write yourself a note to read before each gym session reminding yourself you have had medical clearance, even medical encouragement to strength train and the many benefits to our health, emotional state and our life that comes with strength training… I don’t care if the benefits are to get a little somethin somethin…list them:), whatever reasons that speak to you… This is just one suggestion, there are many more.
Now, the loss of joy and worrying something is wrong with your back, if you worry your form is legitimately off it might be worth the money to hire a coach that knows what they are doing and can correct your form to help you feel secure in lifting. Even if it is just a couple of sessions this may help you build confidence that you are doing it correctly and may alleviate some of the worry and feelings of fear. You may also want to see a behavioral therapist, they can help you learn strategies to calm your thoughts and look at the situation in a realistic point of view. Often when we have one area in our lives with large amounts of fear /worry to where it has affected our emotional state, there are actually multiple area’s in our life that are being affected by worry/fear. The behavioral therapist can help us work through the feelings and give strategies for use throughout our lives.
Thank you guys . I have another question.My physiotherapist at the end of the workout uses a machine which stimulates the muscles with electric current.When he puts this on my back (around T7),i always feel the right side less stimulated.Also,I think i might feel less the temperature in the right side (close to T7).Why this is happening?
This machine noceboed me for real .
Helloooo,Can i get a form check?I’ve tried to record five reps but i had the camera placed in another machine and a guy wanted to use it.I will record next time.I noticed that every time i deadlift i get a bloody shin (maybe i am pulling the bar back,too early,as i am lifting it).Also,sometimes when i finish a rep, the bar has a bigger distance (like 2cm) from my left foot than from the right,i believe this is because of the scoliosis and then i have to reset myself all over again.
.Well no I am kidding,I just want to give you all the “data” because I really appreciate your judgement.