I am a little confused with how to optimize my protein intake.
In your Whey Rx product description, you say:
1 scoop contains enough BCAAs to drive muscle protein synthesis in just about everyone. So, while there’s no harm in taking 2 scoops at a time-there’s no benefit either and economically you’re better off using a single serving at a time. Also, your article, 7 Rules to Optimize Protein Intake says:
Optimal protein intake per meal will be the amount of protein that yields ~3-4g of leucine, a branched-chain amino acid (BCAA). 3-4g of leucine per meal has been shown to maximize muscle protein synthesis.
Every time a large enough dose of protein is ingested, i.e. one that provides enough leucine and EAA’s to push the MPS reaction over the edge, there’s a 3-5 hour refractory period that must transpire before another dose of protein (at a meal/shake/etc) will yield another bout of MPS*.* So in other words, a scoop of whey has 20 grams of protein and 3-4g of leucine, which maximizes MPS.
But am I trying to meet the leucine requirements or grams of protein requirements?
So if I am 200 lbs, I have to eat 200g of protein a day. Then, to maximize MPS (muscle protein synthesis), that would mean that I have to daily eat 10 meals at 20g protein (assuming it’s whey) and somehow space them out to be 3 hours apart?
Our recommendation would be to consume 1.6-3.1g/kg bodyweight/day of protein split up into 3-5 meals.
Our whey has 3g of leucine per scoop, yes. That said, you’ll be consuming plenty of leucine-poor, or better stated- Essential Amino Acid-poor sources of protein from your carb and fat sources. Thus, you’ll need to account for these trace proteins in the total daily protein count.
We would recommend worrying about the total daily protein intake more than anything else.
Just to make sure I understand… Protein sources are made up of all types of amino acids. Some of the amino acids are BCAAs and one of those is leucine. Whey protein has ~3g of leucine per scoop which maximizes MPS. After that, there’s a 3-5 hour refractory period during which there is no muscle protein synthesis. Thus, there’s no need to drink two scoops of whey at a time.
However, most other foods are not so dense in leucine and I can eat much more than a 20 grams of protein in a meal so that I get my maximum amount (3 grams) of leucine per meal.
What I am still unclear about is that foods that are usually rich in protein such as chicken and beef, also contain a high amount of leucine. That means each time I eat those, my MPS enters into a refractory period for 3-5 hours. So when I do eat about 200 grams of protein for my recommended total daily protein intake, how much of that is actually being used for muscle protein synthesis? What happens to the other protein that i eat. It just gets stored as energy, right? So then why is the daily recommended intake so high?
The summary of my confusion is this: it’s relatively easy to hit 3g of leucine per meal by eating whey, chicken, beef, etc… With a refractory period of 3-5 hours, it does not seem possible for the 200g of protein that I eat to be used for MPS. A big chunk of it is just used for energy. Then what is the point of me eating 200g of protein?
No I think there are a few issues with the explanation. I’ll try to be as clear as possible here.
All proteins are made up of amino acids. Essential amino acid content in a protein, which includes BCAAs, varies amongst protein sources. In general, it is typically higher in animal-derived proteins and protein supplements than plant-based sources, which sometimes requires higher protein intake to obtain the necessary EAAs to drive MPS.
MPS cannot take place without EAAs.
The refractory period only lasts ~ 2.5- 3 hours, thus we recommend eating every 3-5 hours. There’s no difference in eating 3x/day (every 5 hrs) or 5x/day (every 3 hrs)
You may not need 200g of protein per day, depending on your bodyweight. We recommend 1.6-3.1g/kg/day depending on whether you’re cutting, bulking, etc. That said, you’ll probably need to hit at least 1.6g/kg/day to get the necessary amount of EAAs per meal and per day.
So I weigh 200 lbs and I’m currently cutting. 200 lbs is 90 kgs. Let’s say I take the lowest recommended amount of 1.6 g/kg/day. That amounts to 144 g of protein per day. If I eat 5 meals at 3 hour intervals and each meal will consist of beef, chicken, or whey, that means I am maximizing my MPS at only ~20g of protein (for the sake of argument, let’s say my only protein source is whey). So for 5 meals, that would be 100g of protein. Of course, I can add the extra 44 grams. But if I am already maximizing MPS, what is the benefit?
And what about if I weighed 250 lbs or even 300 lbs? What if I’m someone like Eddie Hall or Thor? They meet their protein requirements by eating 10,000 calories per day. But how much of that protein is being used for MPS? Is there something else at play here that I am missing?
Specifically, why is your estimate wrong that you’ll only be eating 100g of protein per day, assuming you’re eating other foods besides whey to get your carbs and fats in?
If you weighed more, you’d need more calories to maintain your weight, which means more protein through both concentrated and trace sources.
To clarify #3–is that a general statement? Could a person go to 1? I thought there was potentially a small benefit to the 5 times a day approach over 2, 3, or 4, but that priority wise it was less important than getting the right amount of protein, sleep, appropriate training, etc.
Hehe, yes, please! I’ve been wrecking my head about this. I’m beginning to think that I completely misunderstand how the whole process works since I seem to be missing some key part of the puzzle.
Just to clarify: I didn’t say that I’ll be eating 100g of protein per day. I can eat, let’s say, 250 grams of protein total daily. That’s 50 grams of protein per meal for 5 meals a day (spaced at 3 hours each).
Each meal is exactly the same: it consists of 1 scoop of whey for 20 grams of protein, then the remaining 30 grams of protein is filled with vegetables, grains, meat, etc…
However, since that 20 gram of protein whey scoop already has 3 grams of leucine, what happens to the rest of the protein (the 30 grams extra)? If it is not part of MPS, then what good is it?
We don’t know for sure, as the studies haven’t really been done looking at general jackitude and meal frequency. That said, we have some data showing that <3 meals a day and >5 meals a day both increase risk of obesity. It also intuits that stimulating MPS a few times a day is probably good compared to once, but again, I’m not sure there are any differences long term.
It does seem, intuitively, more would be slightly better but in the absence of data, will focus on staying between 3 and 5 and not sweat details about 4 vs 5. Thanks!
I realize the answer to this question doesn’t necessarily affect protein intake recommendations but: does eating protein reduce muscle protein breakdown? Furthermore, is there a dose response relationship that indicates that eating protein in excess of what will immediately contribute to MPS still acutely reduces MPB?
So the end result is: we don’t know how MPS connects to hypertrophy. But we do know how consumption of protein affects hypertrophy. We can try to optimize MPS if we want, but still the most important thing is to get enough protein daily.
No, we do know how dietary protein intake is related to hypertrophy. We know that you need to get the recommended amount, but the frequency bit hasn’t been established as something important yet.
They meet their protein requirements by eating 10,000 calories per day. But how much of that protein is being used for MPS? Is there something else at play here that I am missing?