Squat stance, groin / adductor pain and nocebombing yourself.

TL-DR: is squatting with narrow stance okay in general?

Hi Dr Feigenbaum and Dr Baraki,

first, I’d like to thank you for the great content you provide to the community. I am writing today to discuss the stance of the squat in the Starting Strength book (3rd ed.) and the possibility of using a narrower stance. I hope my question can benefit others so I’ll take the time to explain properly. I did not find similar topic on the forum except https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/forums/medical-q-a-with-dr-jordan-feigenbaum-and-dr-austin-baraki/4073-dealing-with-a-very-stubborn-asymmetry-in-the-squat

I am at my fourth week of SSLP. I was “doing some squats” (in a Smith machine, really just having fun) a few week before starting the SSLP just to wrap my head around the technique. At this moment, I already started to have a little of pain in the groin, at EXACTLY ONE muscle belly. I think the exact name of the muscle if the adductor longus but I am not sure; it’s the one that attach exactly in the middle of the thigh.

At the start of the SSLP, the pain was growing, even during the recovery period when I walked a lot during the day. I did not panicked, assumed my technique was wrong and went to revise my homework, checking the Starting Strength book for more information. In the “feet and stance” subsection of the squat, Rip mentions that " [a narrower stance] is useful in the even of a groin injury and can be used for several weeks while the adductors are healing.". Then I went on the internetz and found this post: https://startingstrength.com/training/rehabilitating_a_severe_adductor_group_groin_tear

I started to use a “narrower stance”, with the heel a little bit more out and the feet around 12-15 degree instead of 30, more similar to the bottom stance of figure 2-52 in the book. Squatting was not painful anymore, and in two weeks I was not feeling any pain in the adductor at all in my everyday life. Now, I have to decide whether I am going back to a “normal stance” (30 degree, heels shoulder width) should or not. I tried bodyweight squat with “normal stance” and I immediately felt a bit of pain at the same place.

If you look in the book, Rip is insisting a lot on a wider stance. For instance, figure 2-43 talks about hip impingement coming from too narrow stance. In the “feet and stance” subsection, he literally says “If used all the time, however, narrow-stance squatting predispose you to a groin injury to the lack of conditioning for these muscles.”. I am no coach and no doctor, but in my judgement this kind of statement seems exaggerated, and probably quite noceboing / iatrogenic.

So, my call would be to keep what I am doing since A) I continuously add weight on the bar; B) it is not painful; C) if “weak adductors” really becomes a problem I’ll take care of it later and D) low-bar squat with narrower stance still brings me a higher effective range of motion (of the bar) than high bar squat or front squat . Yes, maybe I use less the hamstring and there might be a little bit less power in the hip drive, but who cares?

Yes, no, maybe, a nuanced answer?

Here extra details that might be of importance.

  1. When I was a kid I had severe avascular necrosis of the head of the femur (you good doctors know what is the condition), both left an right, with the right one being the most important. I was lucky to never had surgery and was completely healed around 13 y.o… Since then, I did other sports like gymnastic, athletics and cycling. My right femur crack from times to times, in particular when I squat. There is usually a moment in the warm-up when I fell uncomfortable, then it crack once and then I am good to go. Honestly, I am not worried at all about that (I really don’t give a shit, it’s not an excuse not to train), but I thought it should be mentioned.

  2. I am still struggling at finding proper weightlifting shoes due to personal problem (money). I am squatting barefoot / in socks at the moment. I will for sure try the difference when I have shoes.

  3. Monday as fourth week of SSLP I squatted 84.3 kg (~186 lb) * 5 * 3, I am 177 cm (5.8) & ~83kg (183 lb).

It is reasonable to train a bit longer with the narrower stance, then you can try widening it back out again a few weeks / months down the line.

(I don’t know exactly what you mean by “low-bar squat with narrower stance still brings me a higher effective range of motion (of the bar) than high bar squat or front squat”, though).

Thank you Dr. Baraki, your help is very appreciated. In particular, thank you for the great content you provide about pain*. If I may, I will ask you below a question about it, but it’s just for fun and you don’t need to answer.

To be more precise, what I mean by “low-bar squat with narrower stance still brings me a higher effective range of motion (of the bar) than high bar squat or front squat” is that since my center of gravity is lower with the low bar squat than the high bar, my torso is more inclined when I am at the bottom of the squat. I think that the net effect is the bar traveling a longer path since I can bring it a few centimeters lower.

I don’t incline the torso when front squatting. Therefore, the low bar squat (with narrow stance) is the squat I can do that effectively involve the most muscles through the highest effective range of motion of the bar. The conclusion being that even if my stance is not the perfect book stance, low bar squat is still the most effective squat I can do at the moment to build general strength.

Hope it makes sense and clarify what I meant but maybe this is all in my head and / or I need a serious form check.

Back to pain. As I mentioned, I had severe avascular necrosis of the femur head when I was kid. I got cured by doing a LOT of very painful physiotherapy exercises, 30 to 45 minutes everyday. The mental process for doing so demands to choose to go through pain in order to get better. I think this changed my relationship to pain, because I don’t tend to panic and I think I have a quite decent tolerance.

The question is therefore the following: do you have evidences, either empirical or from your experience, that people who got sick and got better by “going through the pain” develop a different pain management attitude? If yes, do you think this translate into training? As I said I am not expecting you to answer, it’s just my curiosity.

Yeah, I don’t really think any of this is true.

Yes, there is quite a lot of evidence on the long-term psychosocial effects of pediatric pain. I’m currently writing an article that is relevant to this as well.

How do I make a post? I sent you a private message but I can’t figure out to make my own public forum.

Click “new topic”.