Crazy idea I had - tell

Hi Jordan,

i hope you’re well. I’ve just started out with Starting Strength. Thanks for all the awesome content you guys put out.

I have a question about cutting vs bulking when you start out on SSLP. I know this topic has been done to death but I wondered about this strategy.

As I understand it:

  1. A waist measurement of over 40” (like mine) is such a health hazard that shifting the gut should be a priority even if it means milking less out of SSLP.

  2. You certainly shouldn’t look to gain weight to that end - not even on a temporary basis. Whereas someone who started out really skinny could afford to gain a bit of fat for the sake of gains as long as it didn’t go too far. Ie the oft-touted “just accept the fat gains and burn them off afterwards” approach is a bad idea.

  3. This means you will have to switch to an intermediate programme at an earlier point and accept that, ultimately, you are limiting long-term progress too.

  4. Trying to lose fat without lifting is less effective.

  5. You become “de-trained”, if that’s the right word (it probably isn’t) if you stop lifting for a few weeks, meaning you can effectively re-start SSLP.

So what if I adopted this strategy:

  1. Do SSLP on a caloric deficit to get rid of the gut

  2. Once I’ve exhausted it, take time off to deliberately “de-train” myself but keep on top of diet and other forms of exercise to keep that waist size down

  3. Start SSLP again with my slimmer waistline and with a (sensible) bulking diet, resulting in greater gains than I got the first time round

Is this completely insane or could it actually work?

  1. A waist measurement of over 40” (like mine) is such a health hazard that shifting the gut should be a priority even if it means milking less out of SSLP.

Correct.

  1. You certainly shouldn’t look to gain weight to that end - not even on a temporary basis. Whereas someone who started out really skinny could afford to gain a bit of fat for the sake of gains as long as it didn’t go too far. Ie the oft-touted “just accept the fat gains and burn them off afterwards” approach is a bad idea.

Correct. This is a trivialization of how difficult it can be for many individuals to lose bodyfat.

  1. This means you will have to switch to an intermediate programme at an earlier point and accept that, ultimately, you are limiting long-term progress too.

Yes, programming modifications will be necessary. I’m not sure that we can confidently say you’re limiting long-term progress by not gaining a lot of body fat in the early phase of training, however.

  1. Trying to lose fat without lifting is less effective.

Less effective for what?

  1. You become “de-trained”, if that’s the right word (it probably isn’t) if you stop lifting for a few weeks, meaning you can effectively re-start SSLP.

I don’t know what you’re getting at here.

  1. Do SSLP on a caloric deficit to get rid of the gut

The calorie deficit is most important here. The SSLP program has less volume than we’d like for a fat loss situation.

  1. Once I’ve exhausted it, take time off to deliberately “de-train” myself but keep on top of diet and other forms of exercise to keep that waist size down
  1. Start SSLP again with my slimmer waistline and with a (sensible) bulking diet, resulting in greater gains than I got the first time round

We would not recommend this.

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Hi Austin,

Thanks for the helpful response - I’ll just make sure I diet down and lose the spare tyre. Also, sorry for the typo in the title of the thread - I couldn’t edit it once I’d sent it.

Just to clarify what I meant at some points:

Yes, programming modifications will be necessary. I’m not sure that we can confidently say you’re limiting long-term progress by not gaining a lot of body fat in the early phase of training, however.

I was thinking here about the video you did with Jordan in which you guys discussed the people who want to become world-class powerlifters but started the LP with waist circumferences of over 40”. I gathered from what you were saying that, by limiting the strength gains they would get out of SSLP, they were also limiting the gains they would make in the long term - albeit for a good reason ie their health.

Less effective for what?

What I meant here was that attempting to diet down to lose belly fat without also lifting was less effective than dieting down combined with lifting. So it wouldn’t be a good idea to, say, focus on diet and cardio to lose belly fat and THEN start SSLP.

don’t know what you’re getting at here.

Say you lift regularly to a certain point but then stop. You will lose your gains. If you were to return to lifting later then you would effectively be in the position of being a novice again as you build back up. So my thinking was that I could restart the LP as a novice - albeit a novice with a much slimmer waistline - and thus take it further than I did the first time round. But I get that you don’t recommend this so OK.

The calorie deficit is most important here. The SSLP program has less volume than we’d like for a fat loss situation.

We would not recommend this.

Understood - thanks.

I’m guessing one of your templates would be a better option for me in my situation? The Bridge perhaps?

Thanks for your help.

Maybe. I don’t think SSLP is a great program in general, especially those wanting to become a world class powerlifter. I wouldn’t make any changes in order to “run SSLP” optimally.

Correct.

Nah, you wouldn’t be a novice if you’ve trained before. You have lots of adaptations that persist despite detraining and come back much faster than the time it takes to initially become trained.

The Bridge would be cool if you haven’t done any of our templates yet.

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Thanks Jordan. I was under the impression that SSLP was still the program you recommended for beginners, so I didn’t mean to be cheeky by asking questions about it on here if that’s no longer the case.

Out of interest, what are the adaptations that persist despite a lay-off?

Sure. We don’t think it’d be a bad program if it was removed from the associated culture. It’s not how we would ideally program for the beginner population, but it’s a viable option for sure.

As far as persistent adaptations, neural improvements and myonuclei to name a few.

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