Hi all,
I’m looking for advice from people with experience, I started SSNLP 2 months ago, while trying to lose weight (after already losing 25Ks, still 15 KGs more to go), I expected not to become Arnold Schwartzeneger given I have a history of sucking at sports, but I think my lifts are very weak, especially squat.
DL 100KG, Squat 75KG, BP 65KG, OHP 50 KG.
I’m190cm tall, 105KG heavy, with little history of weight lifting, macros are 180gr protein, 140 gr carbs, 70gr fat.
Is this acceptable plateu for fairly underfed person? Or are the numbers bad enough to warrant investigation into what’s wrong?
I did not run an LP, but you may fall in the same category of the OP here (despite him eating a lot and you, hopefully, sleeping well): https://forum.barbellmedicine.com/fo…of-the-lp-zone
" People will clamor, “Well, he’s still a novice! WTF?” However, if there are lifestyle or environmental factors that are compromising your ability to respond to novice training, you’re no longer a novice"
This seems especially true if a relevant part of your 25kg weight loss (good job, btw!!) was during the LP.
What are your goals? You won’t capitalize on novice gains in that kind of calorie deficit. No investigation needed as to why you’re petering out so soon, your way under-fed.
But again, what are YOU trying to accomplish?
The general idea, menimize losing muscle while dropping weight, and then regain strength lost.
The goal was to squeeze what I can while going down to normal body weight (90-95KGs), then start eating if I want make more gains, the only thing is I expected to be stronger.
End goal is moderate strength, nothing fancy, I’d consider it lifetime acheivement to do around 400pound DL, 300 pound squat, 200 pound bench press and 150 pound OHP, and from there to amintain and start introducing different excerises (rows, pull ups, chin up, etc …)
If the numbers make sense I have no problem, I just want to make sure, because it’s generally calimed that a person should be able to DL his body weight are bare minimum, and even that I can’t do.
If you’re in a caloric deficit it will most definitely dampen your response. I wouldn’t think too much into it. How fast have you been losing weight? In general, the faster you lose the more it’s going to impact your training. If you need to lose weight, do so at a reasonable pace (1lb/week is a good general guideline) and change your programming to be more in line with your current situation. It would be reasonable to run The Bridge or one of the hypertrophy templates while you continue to lose.
Regardless what you do for programming, it may also be beneficial to post some form check videos in the FB group, just in case you have some form corrections that need to be made.
My concern, looking at all the numbers you posted is the rate at which you’re probably losing weight. 6’3” @ 231lbs and 1900 calories will probably have you losing more than the 1-2lbs/week generally recommended to preserve your existing muscle mass. I would titrate your calories up until you’re losing at that rate, continue training then reevaluate.
I went all the way down from from ~133KG, so I have slow metabolism after dropping that much weight (I think).
The macros were taken from Bigger, Leaner and Stronger book by Mike Mathews, it was recommended by many, and Starting Strength book is pretty straight foreward on diet, eat a lot or else you’ll fail (which is exactly my experience), I’ve been on them for 2.5 weeks, and I lost ~7 pounds, but I don’t think it’ll be sustainable, my body is sending heavy hunger signals I’m trying to quiet by eating veggies, I didn’t experience this hunger when I lost the 1st 25 KGs (did it on Keto).
We’ll see how it goes.
Other things we should probably know about you:
Your age
Your weight when you started training
Why you think 40kg should be a target for your weight loss exactly
Whether or not you began your weight loss with the start of LP
Knowing this information will help us better judge your situation.
Keep in mind that the average LP lasts about 3 months for a younger, relatively healthy person, but in carrying out your weight loss goals I would expect your LP to be shorter than that.
How sensitive you are to training also plays into this. From what you’ve listed so far, it doesn’t seem far fetched that your LP should be below average in length.
Congrats on the weight loss also. I think at 6’3”, 230lbs you can carry a good deal of muscle and be very strong. At 200-209, not so much.
If it were me, I’d hold body weight at 230 and train hard, maybe even gain a few lbs. then you’ll have a decent amount of muscle mass to cut down to, rather then losing anymore and try to build back up. Chances are if you keep losing, your bf% won’t change much. You’ll just be a thinner (and weaker) version of what you are now.
Youll see changes in the mirror maintaining your body weight and getting stronger. Then you can trim off whatever body fat you’d like slowly down the road.
Slow and steady brother. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
I disagree with this, at least as it’s worded. If he loses smartly (like what you mentioned above, ~1lb per week) and trains with even a halfway decent program he should be able to lean out, maintain virtually all of his current muscle mass, and especially given his training age still get stronger in the process (albeit at a slower rate than if he were gaining or maintaining). He could alternately attempt your other suggestion of maintaining weight, though I haven’t really seen anybody ever successfully “recomp” at the same weight. It would really depend on what his unique goals are as far as how he prioritizes being leaner vs getting stronger, at least in the short term.
Now his current rate of weight loss is definitely faster than ideal. And his calories seem absurdly low to me for his weight. I would definitely recommend adding some extra calories in and slowing down the rate of weight loss. So I do think that other than that one statement, we are generally in agreement.
And to the OP, any macros or calories you get out of a book are simply a guesstimate. It’s a dart thrown at a board. It’s a place to start, but not the gospel. Now you have a few weeks of data. The data is not lying to you, so listen to it. Trust your data and make changes accordingly. Manipulating your weight in any direction is really just a constant process of monitoring data and making small adjustments over time. Definitely slow down that rate of weight loss, imo. Doing so while prioritizing adding extra carbs would especially help from a performance standpoint.
Yeah, I meant losing at the rate at which (I assumed) he was losing up to this point. At 1900 calories while training, I assumed the weight was falling off pretty quickly. I also assumed that from the numbers at which he was stalling at his size. That’s why I mentioned slowing down the weight loss to preserve muscle.
Also worth mentioning…All of these assumptions and suggestions are being thrown out there without other very important info as well such as age, training response, bf%, recovery variables, etc.
I think we’re on the same page though.
Another thing worth mentioning again to the OP is to take your time. There’s no such thing as the “6 weeks to a 6 pack” training program.
Be patient and good luck.
Age is 38, healthy, I’m very resistant to training, I was never good at sports or energetic person in general, but lack of strength from sedentary lifestyle and massive weight lss started to to take a toll, and I want to get strong again.
My weight when I started SSNLP was ~242
BF%, BMI and the how I look, I have big belly (and skinny face, arms and legs).
Most of the weight loss was b4 SSNLP
Thanks, the reason I’m cutting is that the general recommendation to start adding weigh is at 15 BF%, I’ll continue and see how it progresses.
If I keep getting stuck for 1 more month, I’ll up by 500kcals.
Congratulations on your lifestyle changes and sticking with them. I’ve always enjoyed sports and I can’t imagine taking up training without an athletic inclination already. Truly admirable on your part.
Based on everything you’ve told us, I am not surprised at all that your LP is a bit shorter than average. Losing 21kg before your LP is no small feat for your body as you have probably experienced. Couple that with continuing to shed kg’s and run LP, as well as being more on the training resistant side, it just makes sense and there’s nothing else to it really.
So so far I understand your goals to be: better overall health and be stronger. You also mentioned needing to shed 15 more kgs. I’m going to suggest you change this last goal. Instead of only watching the scale, I would recommend you also begin to measure your waist daily and shoot for 96cm or under. I’m assuming you are Caucasian (please correct me if I’m wrong. If so, read on…). If you are able to have and maintain a 96 cm waist or less, your risk of disease related to obesity goes down exponentially. You may also be at a higher bw with a 96cm waist than with simply losing 15 kgs, which would allow you to train more productively, sooner (ie: put on more muscle and gain strength more quickly, etc).
The way you measure is by taking a flexible measuring tape (the kind used for sewing) and wrapping it around your torso over your navel. The tape shouldn’t be too tight that it squeezes you, but without room between the tape and your torso.
All that being said, I’m not sure why you specifically had 15 more kg’s in mind to lose and I realize I may have not addressed that.
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Thanks, I’m middle eastern not white, the weight I approximated based on BF% (according to scale it’s 27%) and BMI score, looks like I need to be 10KG ligher.
I’ll start measuring waist also, I should’ve started a long ago, and I think I’ll up my carbs, I really feel underfed.
Oh ok. The waist measurement might be different for your heritage, I’m not sure. It may be something to ask in the “training” or “medical” section of the forum.
It’s good that you track your body fat % and I’ve personally found it to be useful, but the problem is that short of an expensive DEXA scan, there really is no way to accurately measure your true bf% other than to see if it simply goes up or down. Your scale could be up to 5% off or more depending on which one you have.
Measuring your waist is easy, accurate and evidence-based as far as setting yourself up for better health and even strength outcomes vs simply losing more weight. In other words, if you happen to be 90kg with a 96 cm waist (or whatever the minimum waist measurement is for your heritage) then that’s awesome. If you happen to be over 90kg with the same waist measurement, it’s still equally as awesome in all health respects, and just as important: for your goals.
I think upping your carbs eventually is a great idea too, as well as upping your protein. However, I would say if you are continuing to lose weight slowly and have yet to reach a 96 cm waist (again, may be different for your heritage), I would stay on course losing weight slowly, then once you hit your weight/waist goals, slowly begin to titrate your calories up by manipulating your macros. For overall health, your weightloss journey and waist circumference are the priority and it will be so much easier to increase your macros and thus your calories once you’ve hit your weightloss goals, as you will be able to maintain your new waist size through it all.
A caveat to this is if your weight loss is starting to mess with your training compliance, ie, you aren’t making the progress you’d like to make in the gym and are losing motivation to train or something along those lines.
What’s your current waist measurement if I may ask?
110, all my extra fat is in my belly.
Hey you may actually be 90kg with a 96cm waist. Once you’ve hit your goals though and you start titrating your calories back up, your training will take off for sure